Recipe for pH down!

Ive noticed alot of of people on this forum are either using driftwood or commercial pH down to lower the pH of their tapwater. <
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>In my opinion, theres a cheaper, more effective and dangerous way, and since im such a nice guy i have decided to share. <
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>I post this as a point of interest, and im not suggesting that anyone should try this. <
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>Heres my recipe for pH down. <
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>WARNING<
>First things first: Playing with these chemicals is dangerous, SO DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK.  I DONT RECOMMEND DOING THIS. Just like i dont recommend using driftwood. Could get your eye poked out. <
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>Anyhow, if you foolishly ignore my warnings and try this yourself, heres a few pointers which might help to keep you safe.<
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>Firstly, these things are corrosive, so dont get them on your skin, eyes,
eath vapours, etc. Dont ingest them. <
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>- SAFETY GLASSES. I cant stress this enough. Getting this stuff in your eye, could ruin them. I can easily imagin a small drop coming out of a bucket when you pour something and getting on your face. I would not dare try this without protective glasses. <
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>-Bucket of water. If i ever manage to spill any on myself, i instantly put the affected area in a bucket of water, or use the bucket of water to rinse the affected area immeadiately. I think its standard to rinse the affected area for 20 minutes, although i have never been bothered. <
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>- If your skin feels irritated or soapy, you have chemicals on them which are destroying your skin, so wash them for a few minutes. <
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>-Dont use metal containers or instruments, they will corrode or leech elements into your solution. <
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>Now to get started: Just like you dont use the same bucket to clean the fish tank as you do to wash the car, you use a clean residue free bucket to mix your chemicals, because you dont want anything bad getting into your tank. <
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>1. Go to the pool shop and buy some Hydrochloric acid (HCL)<
>2. Dilute the HCL 1:20 with water (ie in a 2L coke bottle full of water, add 100ml HCL) This is the dangerous step. Dont
eath in the fumes either. You can store this in plastic bottle. From now on when i refer to HCL, im talking about the dilute solution you just made up and put in a coke bottle.<
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>Note: Label your bottles so you dont drink them by accident. <
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>note: $8 worth of hydrochloric acid will last longer than you will<
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>Go to the Food store buy some DRAINO (Caustic soda) should be about $5. Make sure you get one that doesnt look fancy with added stuff in it (which may harm your fish). All you want is Caustic soda. Ill will refer to it as Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH). Get a GLASS bottle (preferably at least a Litre so you dont have to make up more anytime soon), Put in a few table spoons of the caustic soda, and fill it with water. NaOH feels slippery,so if your hands feel slippery, its not soap, its NaOH so wash them with water. From now when i refer to NaOH i refer to the dilute solution you just mixed.<
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>Get your bucket full of water for your water change. (Or tank with NO fish in it, in case you screw it up, first time anyway)<
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>Add HCL to your bucket slowly, say 20 ml at a time. The pH will Drop. But keep reading, the job isnt over yet.<
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>Now the pH will rise again, because of CARBONATES in the water. Keep adding HCL until the pH crashes and doesnt rise anymore. Now you know that there are no more carbonates. <
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>So now your stuck with water that has such a low pH, you cant even tell what it is because its yellow on your pH test. This is when old mate Draino (NaOH) comes in. Add draino (very slowly) until the pH is about where you want it.  <
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>Now you have CLEAR water that is the right pH.<
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>Bear in mind, it gets easier the more you do it, because you get an idea how much of each to add. This depends on what your concentrations are, and how much water you use. As a hint, if you use the same ammount of water each time it makes things easier. <
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>This water will be unbuffered so a buffer added would be nice if that sort of thing worries you. <
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>So dangerous chemicals hey? doesnt sound good for fish, but if you look what it actually is:<
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>Na + Cl + OH + H which adds up to be NaCl + H2O, salt and water. So the worst thing you can do is make your water too salty, which is very unlikely. The reasons these chemicals are dangerous is because at high concentrations they will ruin your skin, not because they contain hamful substances which hurt fish. <
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>The result = Crystal clear, exact pH, healthy water.<
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>pH down products will POLUTE your water with phosphates and sulfates, and they will probly not remove all the carbonate hardness, unless you want to use the whole container for your tank in one go. These products should be used to buffer your water, not drop the pH. <
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>It does sound like an effort, but once you have mixed up your dilute solutions, all you need to do is add a certain ammount of it to your bucket everytime you change the water. <
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>Note- water must still be dechlorinated, whether before or after does not matter.  Edited by: oldmatebobo at: 28/6/05 14:23<
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[Director12]

meh...no thanks. :-)

[here fishie fishie]

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>I like the start of the post & your general theme on safety.<
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>Quote:You can store this in plastic bottle. From now on when i refer to HCL, im talking about the dilute solution you just made up and put in a coke bottle.<
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>Note: Label your bottles so you dont drink them by accident. <
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>Not much good for those that have children. No chemicals should be placed in anything like a coke bottle.<
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>Frenchy  "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
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Personally, I would rather drink a bottle of dilute HCl then shampoo, HCl is actually what your stomache acid is.  <
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>And with all the fruity smells of shampoo, im sure id be tempted to eat some if i was a kid. <
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>Wait a minute, i might have some now...

[ashhhh]

good plug on safety mate, referring to the eye protection bit I copped a load of sodium hydroxide ( I think thats what it was , it was an alkaline not an acid but just as nasty) in my face and eyes once, lukily no permanent damage, but I wouldnt wish the pain upon my worst enemy. I looked like some sort of demon for about 2 weeks as the whites of my eyes turned blood red, but yeah safety first allways..<
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>Cheers<
>Ash  

Think everyone is missing the point of this post, Good info on lowering the ph, as for the safety side of it, How about some common sense?<
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>Good information after the agurements.

[ashhhh]

after reading that post a couple of times it does actually sound pretty good <
>I have some HCl and draino and will try this, on an empty tank and yeah.......see what happens

Bear in mind, The art of doing this, is only adding as much HCl as needed to remove the carbonate hardness. (The less HCl you use, the less you will have to adjust it with NaOH, which means less salt will be formed)<
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>If you have a hardness test it makes it easier.<
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>If not, heres how to do it using
omothymol blue indicator:<
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>Add hcl till it reads about 6.4<
>It will rise back up a bit<
>Add more till its 6.4<
>Let it rise<
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>and continue to do this until your pH reads 6.2 or 6.0 and doesnt rise anymore.<
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>Record the volume you use, so you can do it quicker next time. <
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>But remember, the more hardness you remove, the more the pH will drop every time, and when there is no hardness tiny tiny ammounts of HCl can have a huge change. But the key is getting rid of all the hardness.

[ashhhh]

call me stupid but what is the prefered hardness for aquarium water, or thereabouts?

[cosmotiger1]

thet depends on the fish ash<
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>tanganikan cichlids like hard water some about 300/ppm<
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>and then you have fish like discus that like relatively soft water (not sure exactly how soft).<
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>cheers<
> 1 out of 4 people have a mental dissability!<
>think of your 3 best mates if there fine..... IT MUST BE YOU!!!Edited by: cosmotiger1 at: 29/6/05 15:17<
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[ashhhh]

i took the easy option.......<
>bought some pH down

If you keep discus on the gold coast<
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>just declor your water don''t even bother with pH <
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>a stable 7.2 will always be better then a moving 6.2 <
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[here fishie fishie]

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>Quote:Personally, I would rather drink a bottle of dilute HCl then shampoo, HCl is actually what your stomache acid is.<
>And with all the fruity smells of shampoo, im sure id be tempted to eat some if i was a kid. <
>Wait a minute, i might have some now... <
>   <
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>Quote:If you keep discus on the gold coast<
>just declor your water don''t even bother with pH<
>a stable 7.2 will always be better then a moving 6.2  <
>Yep<
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>Frenchy <
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> "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
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The most stable water for low pH is water with no carbonate hardness, a phosphate or sulfate buffer, and inert aquarium decor. Otherwise fluctuations will gradually occur, even from fish respiration and waste, which leads to a decrease in pH. <
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>You asked what carbonate hardness fish like?<
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>Well if you keep your fish at neutral or lower, then they cannot like any carbonate hardness because it cannot exist in acid water, it will only serve to raise the pH, until it is all gone. <
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>General hardness is the one to watch in acidic water. It will help to add conductivity to the water an assist in the fish''s osmoregulation. Most fish which like acidic water prefer a general hardness of 150ppm or less.  Edited by: oldmatebobo at: 30/6/05 15:54<
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