angels -pair behaviour

[zoezealand]

hello! :D
I brought 2 angels from a pet store a few months ago, now they are 7 and 5 cm including short tail- they are in a lightly stocked community tank with female livebears
last week I noticed them jaw locking (they did it several times that morning and not since) I was concerned, and did some research,
a couple of sites said that this was spawning behavour  :lol: (they are testing each other), it would be great if i could spawn them,
I put a piece of tile, and a upturned plasticly flower pot in,
the bigger suspected female has her egg tube thing (the name eludes me) sticking out, but it is very small and white,
a few days ago the suspected male had his sticking out, but I could not tell much of a difference, is it supposted to be obviously thinner/pointer?
but now 'she' just chases 'him' aggressivly round the tank, there has been no more jaw locking and his tube has nearly disappeared, :x

do you think they are a pair or not?
what should I do if I wanted to spawn them (if they spawned, I would be prepared to artifically hatch the eggs if it saves moving everyone (would I have to remove everyone else, divide the tank, or move them- I have a 90L big plastic tub available, would they spawn in this? or stress at not being able to see out?)

comments and thoughts appreciated :)
kathryn

[konigwolf]

If they are 5 & 7 cm TL they sound WAY to small/young for spawning. Many cichlids use lip locking as a way of fighting/showing dominance as well as testing a perspective mate. Going by the stated sizes I'd guess the bigger one is giving the smaller one a hard time, not unusual in young angels where their cichlid nature can come to fore. Groups of 4-6 angels is often reccomended selling/trading off the unwanted ones as they mature leaving you the desired pair(s) to spread the "energy" around.

HTH

Andrew

[konigwolf]

Ok was lazy with my last post here's some more. Angels usually pair around the 10 months stage (give or take) and mate regularly from around 12 months (again give or take).

Sexing can be difficult as can only be done reliably when the tackle is on display, mostly only when mating but some fish do display them at other times.

Males have a triangular protrusion much like the nib of a ball point pen.

In females the "ovipositor" is tube like.

In both males and females it is obvious when protruding.

Potential of being able to use your tub to spawn shouldn't be a problem as it can make them feel more secure, they cant see out means less potential threats.

Andrew

[Savage_roo]

Well i sex them from their heads
Males have a bump and girls have a strait for head
tryange shape

Well it is the way i pick pairs

Andrew

[konigwolf]

IME that method isnt 100% effective, much like the other methods that are google-lable, while it works in a large percentage of cases there are still the ones it doesn't. If you taking the time to grow angels from small just as easy, room permitting to do 1/2 dozen as 2 if possible (considering during 6-10 months of growth their is often some shape change around the body and head)

My 2cents

Andrew

[zoezealand]

thanks for all your input,
I was hoping to pick up some more at the last auction, but none went through when I was there :x ,
It would make sense that they are too small to breed (that was my first assumption)
so what is the small tube?
its about 1mm (1/3 the size of the eye),

I have only found a few photos on the web, is there something else I could be mistaking it for? :?
I tryed to get a photo, so you could comment, and to measure their size accurately, but trust, the white tube didnt show at all against a white background :x
and they stayed at the back, anyway, to give you an idea of thier size:
[img:16d7409261]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/zoezealand/0f15be72.jpg[/img:16d7409261]
[img:16d7409261]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/zoezealand/P1010145.jpg[/img:16d7409261]
[img:16d7409261]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/zoezealand/P1010143.jpg[/img:16d7409261]

the best photo I found on the web:
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.kcff.net/fish/newworld/pterophyllum/scalare/tnfemwov.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kcff.net/fish/newworld/pterophyllum/scalare/gallery.htm&h=74&w=80&sz=3&tbnid=O_apGlgYFCfd8M:&tbnh=64&tbnw=70&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dovipositor%2Bangelfish%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

mine is slightly smaller and white, what could it be?

thanks for baring with me and my ignorance :oops: ,
 :roll: