anyone got one? what are your experiences - Will you get good growth rates with these.....
groth rate of what??
))o
i got one and it works brilliantly :wink:
I also have one but never use it :lol:
Just sitting under the shelves :lol:
they are great inventions.
if you use (seachem) PURIGEN instead of sand then it will take nitrate out of the water too.
so yes your fish will get better growth (because nitrate stunts fish growth)
With all due respect to Cosmo, I would not use Purigen instead of sand in a FBF because the benefit of a FBF is that it has fantastic properties for growing large bacterial colonies.
In order for it to be effective at removing Nitrates (acutally anything), Purigen requires you to 'recharge' it every so often by rinsing it in bleach. When you do this, it will completely wipeout the large bacterial colony that you have established in your FBF. As a result of wiping out your bacterial colony, you will need to cycle your tank again.
Defeats the purpose of a FBF.
So, DO NOT use Purigen as a substitute for sand in a Fluidised Bed Filter.
Michael
ill have to agree with you both here
If your only going to be using the FBF then dont use Purigen as mick is correct and you will destroy your bacteria but if your going to use it as an extra to help you keep your water cleaner then the use of purigen will be ok
A FBF is an excellent way of using Purigen, though not a stand alone filter.
Do you plan on using other filters as well????
or just the FBF???
Brad
The problem as I see it Brad, is that if you use Purigen in a FBF, it will, by nature of the effectiveness of the type of filter, house the majority of your bacteria, regardless of having other filters.
The minute you rinse it with bleach, it will destroy the balance of your tank and you will have to re-start your cycle. Sure, you will have other filters to assist in that cylce, but I absolutely, 100% guaruntee that you will have spikes in ammonia and nitrite.
If it were me, I would use the purigen in the other filter as an FBF is far more effective as a biological filter only.
Michael
sorry but i dissagree mick,
if you have other filters aswell(recommended) they [u:0acf070bd6]WILL[/u:0acf070bd6] house bacteria.
and tell me what bacteria does????? it turns ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
if you have purigen it absorbs all of these, illiminating the need to keep the bacteria alive in your FBF.
and from experience i can say the cleanest and healthiest fish room i have ever seen had this system and it housed some of the rarest fish in australia and his fish had the greatest growth rates ive seen
if you have enough filtration excluding the FBF then removing the bacteria from this will not cause an ammonia spike. If you just have enough filtration with the FBF then no doubt removing the bacteria from this will affect the levels enough to cause spikes.
I myself use purigen in a few different setups and using different applications and i assure you that removing the purigen and cleaning them in these tanks hasnt affected my levels at all.
The cleanest setup i have seen was using Purigen in a FBF in a sump as an extra.
As i said above only use purigen as an extra in a FBF
The bacteria will multiply in all filters and as long as you dont remove and clean all filters at once you will be fine
Brad
Guys, I'm merely presenting my opinion and as we are all aware there are a number of ways to skin a cat.
Cosmo, theres no need to be a smart arse, I am aware that other filters will hold bacteria.... as I said [quote:89e426210f]Sure, you will have other filters to assist in that cycle[/quote:89e426210f]
One question though if you genuinely believe in your theory.....
[quote:89e426210f]and tell me what bacteria does????? it turns ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
if you have purigen it absorbs all of these, illiminating the need to keep the bacteria alive in your FBF[/quote:89e426210f]
then why do you even care about cycling your tank and why bother recommend having other filters to house bacteria?....because apparently purigen does it all.
Michael
[quote:0ec43c6e54]then why do you even care about cycling your tank and why bother recommend having other filters to house bacteria?[/quote:0ec43c6e54]
[quote:0ec43c6e54]In order for it to be effective at removing Nitrates (acutally anything), Purigen requires you to 'recharge' it every so often by rinsing it in bleach[/quote:0ec43c6e54]
you answered yourself smartass!!!
you need something to filter the water while the purigen is being regenerated
[quote:702c253174]then why do you even care about cycling your tank and why bother recommend having other filters to house bacteria?....because apparently purigen does it all. [/quote:702c253174]
LOL good point mick
I know we are just presenting our own opinions
and we are both right in our own ways
though we do agree we cant just use purigen as a filter medium we do require other filters
I only use purigen as an extra to polish the water gives it an added clarity effect as it does help lower nitrates
Brad
fine kill 2 birds with 1 stone and run 2 of them.......1 with purigen and 1 with sand.
i know how a sand one works and it is great but it is also the most effective way to use prigen
Is that two birds with 1 stone or one bird with 2 stones??? :lol:
Seriously, if you were going for the ultimate, I would invisage that you would run 2 in tandem. The first would be normal sand and the second purigen.
That way you would have a single pump (less cost), the bacteria in the first would take care of Ammonia and Nitrite, and the purigen in the second would mop up any leftover Ammonia and Nitrite and take care of the Nitrate.
Also by having it run throught the sand one first, you would maintian the maximum biological filtration and extend the time between recharges on the purigen. When recharging the purigen, you wont end up killing the bacteria in the first.
Best of both worlds.
Just my opinion though.........
Michael
actually mick i give credit to that last reply.
i agree that would work great running throught the sand first then the purigen
and i think its 1 bird with 2 stones lol
That would be great to run them both
as then you would be getting the best of both worlds
well done mick lol
umm isnt 2 birds with 1 stone?
Brad
[quote:4923ea8fe4]umm isnt 2 birds with 1 stone? [/quote:4923ea8fe4]
but we are using 2 filters for 1 tank therefore 2 stones -1 bird
Isn't a FBF only useful because of it's massive surface area for housing bacteria, and has no kind of mechanical filtration at all? Why would you run one for any other reason than to house bacteria? The best part about them is the agitation kills off older bacteria letting newer bacteria grow faster comsuming more nitrites and ammonia, if you have one running properly there wont be a great deal of bacteria in your other filter media because there wont be any nitrate or ammonia for it to eat, and shutting down a huge colony of bacteria all at once will cause a spike, with your other filters bacteria colonies trying to grow from almost nothing to a colony that, if the FBF is running at full capacity, the other filter wont be able to house at all. If you run chemical filtration further down the line, in a FBF or any other means then so be it but to use it instead of sand shows a poor understanding of the purpose and processes in a FBF. Mick pointed out a very valid point and instead of acknowledging it, once again it's a slagging match. Pretty sad.
I said that using a FBF as a means to use Purigen would be a better way of exposing the product to the water.
If you remove your main filtration and clean this you will have spikes this i will agree with but if you have enough filtration and your only cleaning the Purigen then you shouldnt have a problem.
I did also ask if he planned on using other filtration as well as the FBF as if he only intended on the FBF then running purigen would be pointless
The Purigen will not totally remove Ammonia,Nitrites and Nitrates
Are u saying that bacteria will only grow in a FBF and not other filtration methods as well?
Im not trying to be a smart arse nor am i trying to make this a slanging match
Brad
"DAMN" it!!!!!
youse run it how you want. i was just pointing out that it can be set up different :evil:
[quote:31db871c1e]Why would you run one for any other reason than to house bacteria?[/quote:31db871c1e]
thats what im trying to explain.
but your too simple minded to see that things can be used differently than the box says[/quote]
-Edited - Watch the language -
:lol: @ Steve.
Silly you for pointing out a different use for something. :roll:
[quote:525be99d53]Isn't a FBF only useful because of it's massive surface area for housing bacteria[/quote:525be99d53] That is what it was designed for. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. :idea:
[quote:525be99d53]but to use it instead of sand shows a poor understanding of the purpose and processes in a FBF.[/quote:525be99d53] :lol: Don't worry yourself Flash. Steve, Brad & myself understand the use & function of a FBF. Sometimes thinking outside the square gives you other viable options.
The setup with purigen mentioned above is on a system, he has $4000 worth of fish in "one" tank alone and has some very sensitive/rare fish at that too. If you are confident with your fish keeping abilities & how your filtration is run, you can use purigen in a FBF Mick.
Me personally, I would go for sand.
Make sure the FBF is a good quality one & set up properly as there will/can be dead spots. Make sure the water flowing through the FBF is oxygen rich too.
These are great filters work on similar principles to a Canister filter, but better(IMO) as sand has a very high surface area then bio balls & sand is cheaper too.
What you put in sand/ purigen..... well both options given work well.
Brads points were the most valid (IMO) to your question. Others here seem to have there own agenda, Brad was the only one to ask how your tanks are set up, other filtration......
What works best for you....well only you can answer that.
As for the others, maybe some chill pills.
[img:525be99d53]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/Herefishiefishie/ecstasy_pill275.jpg[/img:525be99d53]
Legal disclaimer: the use of these pills may be illegal in some states.
Frenchy :D
ILLEGAL????
oh my god,,,,, if only i had of known.
Rest assured Justin I have no agenda other than to make sure someone isnt led down the proverbial garden path.
Steve's initial post suggesting purigen in a fbf made absolutely no reference to the use of other filters and my response to that post was absolutely correct. Otherwise my posts have been nothing more than constructive ctriticism of the way that they use fbf's.
I understand exactly how steve and brad use the FBF. Essential their point it that a fbf gives the water a greater exposeure to the purigen than in other applications. I highlighted some drawbacks to using it that way and Brad acknowledged those.
I never once said that it could never be used in a FBF application, in fact I gave an example of the best way, in my opinion, that purigen could be used in that application to eliminate/reduce the drawbacks that I had previously highlighted. As it happened, brad and steve thought it was a good idea.
As for chilling, mate im fine, I just get pi$$ed off when people dont read things properly/in context and when you cant have a sensible discussion here without it getting personal or someone making a smart arse comment.
Have a good day.
Michael
[quote:15934fe5dd]
So, DO NOT use Purigen as a substitute for sand in a Fluidised Bed Filter.[/quote:15934fe5dd]
Now come on Mick, you being a Lawyer & all, you would know that the English language can be interupted a number of ways. To some the above comment means do not use purigen.
[quote:15934fe5dd]Steve's initial post suggesting purigen in a fbf made absolutely no reference to the use of other filters and my response to that post was absolutely correct.[/quote:15934fe5dd]
You are correct in rebutting Steve, but you never bothered to ask what filtration set up was being used either.
That is why I said only read what Brad posted as he is the only one who gave options & reasons.
Steve should of posted, if you have other filters, an option is purigen....
[quote:15934fe5dd]The minute you rinse it with bleach, it will destroy the balance of your tank and you will have to re-start your cycle. Sure, you will have other filters to assist in that cylce, but I absolutely, 100% guaruntee that you will have spikes in ammonia and nitrite. [/quote:15934fe5dd]
Guarantee, hmm I doubt that. As I said earlier, if your filtration system is doing its job, purigen is there to polish the water & cut back the nitrates. If what you say is correct, how do these set ups with purigen have no dramas then.
Stick to facts, not assumptions.
Frenchy :D
Justin
Im not sure what this means???
[quote:7f13e3fdf7]you would know that the English language can be interupted a number of ways[/quote:7f13e3fdf7]
and I dont want to get into any argument here so this is the last I will say...
as I said before, the part you quoted first, was in response to steve's first post ONLY and as you even say, it was correct. My later response suggesting a more effective use of purigen in a FBF is proof that I think that i can be done. end of story.
i think that my suggestion of using tandem fbf's could be classed as 'giving options and reasons." so i doubt Brad was 'the only one'.
I do quarantee he will have a spike. The level of the spike will depend on the effectiveness of the remaining filtration. if its great, then the spike may not even be apparent, nevertheless, it will be a spike. In a closed system such a a tank, by destroying part of the bacteria, you will interrupt the balance that exists until such time that the balance can be regained. That interruption WILL cause a spike of some sort.
The setup that you appear to worship will have same sort of a spike, its just minimal to the extent that it does not have any tangible effect on the fish. It just means that he has other filtration capable of picking up the slack. As Brad said, he uses it in conjunction with other filtration. Simple
Michael
we had this all sorted out unit lord decided to open the wound again :twisted:
i might go back into hybernation for another few months, i forgot about how bitchy this forum is.
peace out mo fo's
If our environment isn't perfectly balanced, how can we say we can create one.
There are always slight variances in a closed system, especially with aquariums.
You originally said spike. (spike means a visible change, large upwards or downwards movement)
Now in the last post you say slight spike, well now thats different.
A slight raise will happen whenever we rinse out our filters, or do a gravel vac, do water changes...just the disturbance is usually to minute(small spike) to notice any difference. :idea:
Yep I will worship that filtration set up, its the best in house system.(IMO)
Actually I have seen purigen used on 2 other systems too.
Frenchy :D