Hi <
>I have a 6 foot tank, 1500lph ext canister and 1000lph internal powerhead filter running to look after a single big devil, but the water seems slightly cloudy? I dont think it can be ammonia levels? It happened after my last water change. the external cannister is only a week and a half old but the water was slightly cloudy before i put it into action. Is barely noticeable, but it isnt crystal clear like it used to be. Any ideas?<
>Cheers
A few questions:<
>Is it a newly established tank?<
>What media are you using?<
>And how many litres is your 6FT?<
>Maybe it''ll take a few days to settle down if you''ve just set the tank up.<
>However have a look at your filter media to determine if it will filter out the finer particles that may be causing the cloudy effect. I''m guessing your tank is around 500L so your external is moving the tank''s volume about 3 times an hour. Some people reckon it should be more but I personally think 3 times in an hour is sufficient. So your internal cannister can act as a bit of a water polisher, so maybe get your hands on some finer filter media (like good ol'' the wool mat) and try it in the internal. It''ll probably clog up quick so check after a day or so to see how much it''s picked up.<
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>By the way, if you''ve just upgraded to a bigger tank did you use the same internal filter untouched from your old tank? Always a good idea as you''ve already got the bacteria colony in your established filter, so pack the wool mat in there as extra (if there''s room). With one fish you should be right but your external will take a few weeks to get established biologically.
so long as its no serious water quality problem, for crystal clear water put some carbon in one of your filters,<
>I use and highly recommend this product "zero colour" available from any good LFS, its a handy sized bag filled with a mixture of carbon and some other different coloured media it cleaned my 4x2x1.5 display tank within a day, tannins and all Cheers<
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>Ash.....<
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>
The problem I find with carbon is it can only absorb a certain amount from the water, with the catch if you leave it in your filter too long it''ll leech those impurities back into your tank. <
>So I''m not a big fan which is why I didn''t mention it, but that''s just my opinion and each to his own. <
>I certainly wouldn''t throw it in an external filter as potentially the carbon will stay there for 3 months which is way too long. My understanding is carbon will absorb to it''s threshold within a week, but I could be wrong.
I think it would depend on how polluted the water is, to how quick the carbon will become useless.As long as you have a healthy biological filter and good prefiltering you should at least get a month or so.<
>I have my carbon at the very last stage of my filter, so the water goes through 2 sets of prefilter sponge (which are cleaned every 3-4 days wich takes 5mins) then goes through the bio section, then a final sponge with a piece of perspex with holes in it which the bag of carbon sits on.Of course if you are lazy and leave the carbon in for longer than necessary it wont do its job, and as you said yeah each to his own. Carbon is not very expensive so why not give it a go, it may just do the trick........ Cheers<
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>Ash.....<
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>Edited by: ashhhh at: 11/7/05 18:36<
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Carbon is an option. But wont really make your tank less cloudy. If its a new canister is wont really be doing anything to filter your tank, it will take at least 10-15 days for a decent level of bacteria to build up and start working as it should. <
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>And when you wash your filter sponge''s or wool, always do it in tank water (not in the tank of course, but syphon some into a bucket) that way you dont kill the bacteria. And do it softly. <
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>You can also get a product called "Stress Zyme" which will help to cycle your filter quicker, there is a few other products that do the same thing. And make sure that your not over feeding the fish, Is there any food left on the bottom? If i have a fussy eater i always feed tinny amounts over 15-20 minutes and make sure none hits the bottom. But again depends on the fish.<
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>HTH.<
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>Glen
Cloudiness is virtually impossible to filter out unless you use Diatomacious earth. It just takes a while for the bacteria in the filters to do its job.<
>Cut down on feeding untill it clears then go back to normal.<
>Theo<
>
quote,<
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>"Carbon is an option. But wont really make your tank less cloudy".....<
><
>yes it will, and yes it does, <
> but from his post I am assuming that his tank is not a new setup and has been cycled, and usually has all parameters in check, and just has dirty water maybe? I dont know<
> Cheers<
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>Ash.....<
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Bacterial bloom.<
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>I''d just do as Theo said & wait it out. <
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>But if you can''t <
>Purigen is the best for making water crystal clear. sh%#s all over carbon & Purigen can be recharged so cheaper in the long run. <
><
>Frenchy "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
>Edited by: here fishie fishie at: 11/7/05 22:50<
>
Anyone ever use GeoLiquid? Never used it myself but a mate swears by it and reckons it clears the water like magic.<
>Can anyone rate it?
Thanks guys a lot of good info there - yes its an established tank been set up for a couple of years, and it went cloudy all of a sudden after a water change, which is WHY I bought the big cannister (aquapro1500). So far hasnt cleared a lot and have done 2 water changes. Opened the big cannister and not much bacteria yet so bought bioballs to add to the concrete cylider looking things. It has carbon then bioballs then like a sponge filter thingo in it. I threw in some old filter in the spare tray for good measure. Is it true I should remove the carbon? Thought I could leave that in there for ages. never had a problem before, but then I never used it b4 either! Will get lfs to test water if it doesnt clear up, however the fish are as happy al larry and ph indicator tests equal colour to a small tank i have full of loaches etc so i figure its ok otherwise the small tank and its weak inhabitants would show detrimental effects b4 the big guys...<
>cheers
<
>Carbon has a limited life span. Around a month.<
><
>Try & find some course foam for your cannister, it acts as a bacteria collector, catches waste & won''t clog up as quick as the finer padding. Bonus here to is too that it lenghtens the time on having to clean the cannister filter out. Never clean filters under tap water too.<
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>Once you have finished with the carbon fill the tray up with more mini bio balls or ceramic noodles or a product like Matrix.<
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>Geo Liquid does help clear the tank up, but you don''t need to use it for that, once the bacteria levels are up in the filters.<
><
>Frenchy "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
>
Unfortunately most people are under the impression that water changes will help to clear the tank, this is definitely wrong, as you are throwing out the developing good bacteria to replace it with raw tap water.<
>As I said the filters will not clear the cloudiness, the beneficial bacteria will.<
>Feed less or not at all. Dont clean your filters. It will clear once there is a balance.<
>Theo<
>
Theo and Frenchy, you''ve raised a point that I once asked on other forums (even on here too), that I was shot down for - as the bacteria builds up in your tank and filters the clearer your water will be. Someone said this wasn''t the case but my experience indicated exactly what you guys have said. I started off a new canister and 4FT last year and at first I would clean the canister once a month - my water clarity wasn''t as good as previously. <
>I since learned to just leave the thing alone and now that it''s been running untouched for last three months my water clarity is best it''s ever been. So take heart Coby. <
>But I suspect this is due to an established bacteria colony in my canister (and on rocks etc), not being disturbed too frequently.<
>So can we establish exactly why - is this because an established bacteria colony is at peak efficiency in line with the waste load of the tank? Therefore the clarity is related to the amount of bacteria and how the colonies perform???<
>I agree with you guys whole heartedly but would love to know the science behind it.<
>Cheers. Edited by: GTR73 at: 12/7/05 12:36<
>
Quote:as the bacteria builds up in your tank and filters the clearer your water will be. Someone said this wasn''t the case I bet they aren''t using their filters properly. so in their own case they are right <
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>What you will find is that most people use internal filters, cannisters & the like, & the sponge that is in them is dense & in internals not much sponge at all. <
>(is it a ploy by manufacters to then sell other products/ chemicals??) <
><
>Bacteria needs oxygen, but because the dense foam clogs up quick with dirt, the oxygen can''t get through the sponge, hence the bacteria only live on the outside of the foam & on the inside, if there are any bacteria they may/will die. The surface area then isn''t large enough to support the bacteria, the little amounts of bacteria that do exist are hardly going to process much in the way of waste products. <
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>I use coarse foam, hardly has to cleaned out at all. Once or Twice a year. Still do water changes weekly to keep the water clean. But I know the bacteria are alive & well in the filters.<
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>For internals, use a plastic tube that fits the connection of the powerhead. Drill small holes throughout the tube. Bottom end of tube has to be closed. Get a cut of coarse sponge. Fit over tube, ta da, a better functioning internal filter, that only has to be cleaned once in a blue moon.<
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>Frenchy <
><
>ps:<
>Quote: In order to obtain stable aquarium water you need a sufficiently large bacterial flora which can process most the waste products. <
>by;Kjell Fohrman. From an Ad Konings Book. "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
>Edited by: here fishie fishie at: 12/7/05 14:05<
>
<
>or some internals, eg; Sonpar''s.<
>Have seperate cases, in these cases you can mix it up, still have foam to catch waste. Use Zeolite or Matrix & the like for the bacteria to grow on. <
><
>Frenchy "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
>
on the topic of beneficial bacteria, as fish grow and more waste is produced and released into the water, would the bacteria colony in the filter subsequently grow to compensate<
>the rise in pollutants?........ providing the filter media surface is large enough to cope and there is sufficent tank water turnover of course.....anyone know?......just curious Cheers<
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>Ash.....<
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I recon that the amount of oxygen in the water has alot to do with it, If you have a powerhead, definatly use the little attachment that sprays fine air bubbles into the water, or use an air stone (or a strip depending on the size of the tank) that puts out a fine bubble. <
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>Im no expert on this, just new to the hobby really, just noticed that with my tanks it will make a huge difference, and the fish seem more active aswell.<
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>As for the amount of bacteria building up with the more waste, i dont think so, pretty sure even if you only put a small load on the filter they will still grow through out the filter media, so more media/surface area, the more filtration ability. But thats a guess.<
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>HTH,<
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>Glen
Ash - You''ll find that the bacteria colonies grow as the fish (load) grows from your tank. However bacteria grows very slowly, it takes weeks, so this is why people can run into trouble if they throw in a few large fish in one hit into their long-time established tank. Usually results in an inbalance which causes an ammonia spike. Meantime the bacteria is busy growing like crazy and trying to catch up with the increased load.<
>If you''re keen, take a look at this site for some good info on the types of bacteria in your tank. Interesting stuff:<
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>Water basics<
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>Frenchy - great idea on the centre tube for an internal. I''m gonna try that this weekend. <
><
>Cheers.
Unfortunately someone you guessed everything wrong so no prize for you today.<
>The little bubbles in the water have little to do with the amount of oxygen dissolved in the water, they may help a little, but its the general water movement, and the amount of surface area in contact with the atmosphere, that determines the amount of oxygen in the water.<
>Also the amount of waste produced will definitely have a bearing on the beneficial bacteria, ie the more waste produced the more beneficial bacteria over a period of time. These things have to be done slowly though as the beneficial bacteria take a long time to get established.<
>At least you had the sense to say that you were guessing.<
>Theo<
>
oh thats why i like forums, you learn something new everyday (today a couple of new things).<
><
>Cheers.
thanks GTR, I thought I was on the right track........ Cheers<
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>Ash.....<
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>
This has been a great thread - some good discussion and I''ve learnt a few things. Edited by: GTR73 at: 14/7/05 6:54<
>
Just thinking about it further, so if i had say a 4 foot tank, with no air supply going into it, and a powerhead moving the water around. <
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>There would be more oxygen in this water than say a pyamid shaped tank with next to no surface area but a powerhead with an air attachement?<
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>Just doesnt make sence as i lost a few fish in a tank that i only had a canister filter running 4x2x2, and no airstones, the spraybar was only just under the surface and moving a fair bit of water. As soon as i put in an air stone, havent lost a single fish. all fish where the same age and size.<
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>Just wondering.<
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>Glen<
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>
<
>Agitating the surface of the water is what oxygenates the water. I peronsally havent used an air stone in years. <
>eg; A 6 footer with just a canister & a Aqua Clear 300. No problems touch wood. <
><
>Quote:i lost a few fish What of? <
><
>frenchy "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
>
Now you got me worried Glen, but I was always led to believe that surface movement was the key to oxygenation. On my 4ft I''ve got an external canister and an internal with a spray-bar attached, and like Frenchy I haven''t used an airstone in years. My internal filter''s spray bar is aligned horizontally and seems to create a fair bit of surface movement - never had any dramas as yet.<
> My fry tank is the same because air stones in their 2ft makes too much turbulence for them to eat and grow without burning off excess energy getting around.
Generally if you''ve got a powerhead you dont need an airstone, unless you''ve got way too many fish and you need extra surface movement.<
>With cannister filters, I find that if you leave the spraybar or outlet too low in the tank, you dont get enough surface agitation and could run into problems, especially if you have problems with protein scum on top of the water.<
>So the general rule is observe your fish, they will let you know if they are short on oxygen.<
>If there is a problem check your filters, make sure there is some surface agitation, check for an oily film on the water.<
>If you are still having problems, you''ve probably got way too many fish in the tank or are overfeeding or both.<
>Theo<
>
Yeah, look as long as the surface moves a bit you should be right, as to cannister filters the big hose can just have a rightangled piece attached to the outlet to direct water across the surface, a better flowing and quieter alternative to those annoying spray bars IMO.<
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>Hey deagon theo are you the guy who bought that tank and baby red devil off me in shorncliffe? If so, hows he going? His dad cracked the one foot mark the other day and is suitably furious about it. <
>Cheers
Yea thats me , I ended up getting rid of him and the other Americans they started to tear each other to pieces as they got bigger, nice fish though.<
>Theo<
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>
whether you use an airstone or your internal filter it doesnt really matter so long as you have something
eaking the surface tension of the water to allow the bad gasses to escape and get oxygen transfer and all that jaz happening... Cheers<
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>Ash.....<
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>
<
>Thought this might interest you Brad(GTR) & maybe others.<
>Just adding to the benefits of bacteria from earlier.<
><
>At a seminar today, we were shown a slide. In a dish (split in 1/2) was a type of fungus. Growing in both 1/2''s.<
>Bacteria was added on one 1/2 of the dish.<
>The bacteria grew & the fungus dissappeared on one side of the dish.<
>While the fungus on the on the other side continued to grow.<
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>Frenchy "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
>
Mmmm, very interesting Frenchy.