Whats your opinion,
I used to notice people getting $10-15 each for 3-4cm fry, now stores are doing them for $5-6 each.
How long untill these guys are gonna be the same price as commons??
Yup i did notice alot of people Trying to sell them with no luck in the live stock section.
Looks like they have just about hit the common bn price now.
They only commanded a higher price because they were new. Problem (if you want to make lots of money) is they breed exactly the same (like rabbits) so there will not be a shortage or supply problem with them like other L numbers.
It's the same with new cichlids - if you dont get hold of the original shipment into the country it's hard to make money out of them.
My opinions only. :?
Cheers
Steve
yep, i guess the market has been flooded and they're nice and cheap, why would you by them from private breeders for $10 each when you can just wait for Aquarium Warehouse to get more in and then buy them cheaper.
i wonder when the same will happen to the peppermint b/n's??
Doubt it will happen to the peppermints, they are abit harder to breed.
steve,
if you dont get hold of the original shipment into the country it's hard to make money out of them. :lol: :lol:
if with u on that one steve :P
benji,
pepermints have already gone down quite a bit since they were bought into aus **good in a way i wouldnt have been able to get some if they didnt** but yer they should never get that cheap unless people start mass producing them and flood the market then compiet with each other on prices just to sell em
cheers luke
good thing is that those like me who held onto there peppermint the price for them are now going back up as the albinos floo the market
The only albino's in the genetic sense are the pinky ones.
The rest (brownish-yellow), are a mutant that has been line-bred (unknowingly) with a problem/mutation in alpha-tubulin affecting microtubules resulting in poor pigmentation.
Mitch. Just my 2c
I hope peppermints are going up in price cause mine had their first spawn & are fanning again.Might be able to buy some more fish in a couple of months.woohoo!!
Brian.
Well i would have some if some 1 lived closer to me lol
They might be only a few $$ but the cost goes up if you have to add an hours driving on top of the price lol
O well thats life lmao
Give me a ring in about a month the first ones might be ready for sale then.
WHAT CAN I SAY :lol: :lol:
tropheus are next :twisted:
KEV
Why is the price drop any surprise?
Sure they breed well and the price has been steadily falling as it does with everything once they become more frequently available in Australia.
The price was always going to drop down to almost common price.
I say almost because I feel they are far more attractive than commons and will always be a little more popular but the sudden price drop is due simply to Aquarium Warehouses sale.
I mean whos going to pay $10 to $15 now when it is commonly known that Kev was selling them for $3.50. Makes everybody else look like a rip off.
I'm not saying they are.
I personally think he has done the market no favors at all and you should all hope that he doesn't find a source of Peppermints or the same thing will happen.
Most people with common sense knew the minute those adds went on the internet the price of Albinos was gone for ever so I'd suggest you get used to it.
(Waiting to get ripped to shredds, but my opinion]
Cheers Linda
Nah i agree totally, that was what i was getting at without saying it lol, ppl are still trying to get $10 each for them when kev does that, Think it just ripped the arse out of the market.
But its supply and demand, cant hold it against him for being able to supply so many of them.
And tropheus are next? Well i sorta hope so becuase im cheap and I really like my tropheus, might allow me to get some more varietys, cant see the same thing happening with tropheus though, dont have the spawns and arnt that easy to keep.
But i will say they do love nls, and without any bad affects, ohhh if the best colour i have seen in them is a bad thing.
thats true and i agree'
tropheus do have small batches
but are on the import list :evil:
i just think there a great fish but have been over priced for a long time...
peppermints yes i have a good supply comeing...
regards kev
Tropheus are on import list and tend to agree with you to a certain degree but the Catfish are reliant totally on local aussie breeders and I think you have prematurely devalued them. If hobbists can't sell off their fry they will move on to other things that pay a bit better which in turn eventually makes them harder for you to sell too. I realize the price was always going to fall but think you have unnessarily kicked the average hobbist in the guts and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Just the only one saying so ATO.
Cheers Linda
it is quite annoying with those kind of prices being offered.
makes you wonder :roll: if the time and effort you put into cleaning, feeding,
breeding your fish is really worth it.
most people would like to at least be able to cover the cost of breeding their fish, not to mention the $400 power bill,
excess water bill, the hours you spend with your fish
instead of your family.
:idea:
hmmm might stick to breeding dogs,
or are they on the import list too.
cheers dave.
Well as I see it its going to take months for those fish sold to breed and then to get back in to the market
So they will still be a lak of fish out there and if people want them there giong to have to pay a good price not as much as a few months back tho
But they will figer that out so all you have to do is sell breading pairs the price is still up there 4 those
Besides i have heard a lot of people are having trouble with rasing them some loosing upwards of 50 to 60% of their fry
But if U want to make a $$ you have to have what people want
And there are a lot of fish that where commom once and now r hard to find
I should know i get the ones people don't want and strangly enough
U say u have these fish and people say they like those and how many do u have
So look a round get them cheep and grew up and sell them 4 a good price as the price drops find somthing elce and move on
For IE I got some geos for 3$ grow them to breeding size sold them for 40$ each and i have not seen 1 in a shop for agers
So Its like the stock market make a $ and move on
Flood the market and stuff up every one the best part is u can only do it a few times soon you won't be able to give them away
Think about it?
I can't see what Kev has done wrong.
*Waits for this to turn into a "how much can I make from a hobby before I pay tax thread"
I don't know many other "hobbies" where you can get a return. It's a risk you take.
Some people have a tank or two of fish simply for the joy of having it and they will agree with Cookie and thats fine. Thats their business and none of mine but a large number of hobbists breed their fish 1 for the challenge and enjoyment of it and usually to try to cover costs and reinvest in more fish, these are the ones that will be hurt and unfortunately Bristlenose and all associated species are NOT on the import list so our interest and supply of them is totally reliant on people breeding them and if they are made worthless then they simply will not want to breed them and with all these guys its not a simple 'order in from overseas to re boost the aussie stocks'.
A month ago we were paying (wholesale) $7.50 and upwards for Albinos, can only pay $2 now and probably about 80cents next year and there is no choice in the matter as all shops have to try to remain competive.
Not really hurting me as we'll still make the same markup on them but the breeders are the ones that will feel it in the hip pocket.
Cheers Linda
This is why I'm glad I threw the breeding fish away.
As much of an experience it is, it doesn't really matter what kind of fish you are breeding, there comes a stage where you have all of these prolific fish, but what to do with them all?
It gets to the stage where you can't get rid of them! And when you do it's for rediculous low prices that hardly cover your costs.
I agree with cookie, it is the risk you take of expecting too much from a hobby.
It's always going to be a factor when you think about it, you get a fish that isn't so common (albino bn for eg) at first they are hard to come by, fairly dear, then once those breeders start getting something out of them and sell for good money, it happens again, then other people do the same etc etc.
Soon comes that time when the market is flooded with them and you are flatout almost giving them away.
Like I said, I'm glad I got out of breeding, because when you have so many fish breeding, and you can't sell them, it's quite disheartening.
Not the fact that you aren't going to make $$ (which isn't [b:b7e321a634]that[/b:b7e321a634] important), but simply that no-one is interested in your hard work and effort, time all put into said fish.
But anyway, these things are always going to happen, so we best just roll with the punches.
:wink:
make money from breeding albino b-n
some facts.
we buy them for $2.00 each now
the breeder is happy with that do you know why.
he sells me 1500 per month..
thats $3000.00 per month
thats $750.00 per week..
had to live with that hay only $750.oo per week
from 12 tanks mmmmm
so i think maybe he is doing it right
regards kev
i'm surprised albino bn's kept their price for this long, since they breed so prolifically just like the common bn's and the commons are still around, no shortage of them so why would the albinos dissapear?
It's not Kev's fault if he's got a cheap supplier, he'd be mad not to take advantage of it, good on him.
Every fish breeder/seller contributes to the drop in price of every species, it's just the way it goes.
So kev, when is the next super special saturday haha :lol:
Im waiting, i reckon you need one at the Brisbane Store though :wink:
Sam
All in all its make hay while the sun shines
Make a dollar and move on people
In the end its just a hobby to most
for some its a living and every one wants to adleast cover there costs
So sit back have a drink and enjoy
I've seen the same thing happen with various birds and mutations.Someone gets and abino or diff coloured strain going and they are expensive at first but as they multiply so the price drops.Thats the way of pet breeding, you get in on the ground floor, make a few bucks, reinvest in the next "new" thing if you want to make some $.The ones that stay high are the ones that are harder to breed or that have requirements that most people cant or dont want to have to cater for.
12 tanks??
Pull the other one, he has more than that in his quarantine room lol.
But yea, for a few there is some profit in it.
I agree with kev do it the right way and your set do it wrong and your flushed. I deal with a shop and he tells me what he wants and how many I breed what he wants and sell them back to him. At an agreed price. He to has a wholesale room and tells me how much he pays for importable fish and I work out which ones I like how prolific and discuss it with him.
Like he told me the other day most breeders want there price and get upset when they don't get it. As I look at it I would rather sell him 200 of one fish at a cheaper price than 20 at a dearer price eg 200 fish at a dollar is $200 20 at $5 is $100 I am already up by $100 especially if he buys that many every week of that fish That is a $1000 per month for one species compared to $500. As I have found the more I charge per fish the less I sell and I rely on the quality of the fish to sell. So personally I get a little more than a guy with poor quality.
And as kev has shown he has 12 tanks and one species pulls in that much.
Tis the old story of supply & demand, if the supply is higher than demand the price goes south :(
glenn
i think you are talking about raymond...
i only bought some from ray
all the rest come from alwin and taya
but thanks for careing :twisted:
regards kev
Yes Linda !!
It is just about three years since I got my firt Albino BN and they cost $500 each pluss freight.
Unfortunately they were all females. ($6,000 worth). By the time I was able to get hold of even one male the retail price was 1/5 what I paid originally. Got the fingers burned there a bit.
Fortunately, the albino BN I have are actually gold, not pink/white, and discerning retailers and wholesalers both here and in Sydney are still paying several times Kev's shop price for good size, quality fish.
as anyone seen the color of my albinos
kev
[quote:2660877972="Alan Caboolture"]Y
Fortunately, the albino BN I have are actually gold, not pink/white.[/quote:2660877972]
I've done some study in cell biology. I'm not an expert, but the "brown" are not albinos.
Mitch
True albinos lack eye pigment, hence the red eyes. What colour are the eyes on the gold ones?
Andrea :)
my long fins are gold with pink eyes. I guess you could call them lutinistic(spelling) or lutino rather than albino . Either way they still look good,I prefer the gold than white.
12 Tanks of breeding Albino Bristlenose you'd deserve $750.00 a week
It might be enjoyable for the first week , by the third week you'd be thinking you were working in a Beige paint factory l.o.l.
Good luck to him.
Regards
S.B.
[quote:efcc2b0323="aquariumwarehouse"]glenn
i think you are talking about raymond...
i only bought some from ray
all the rest come from alwin and taya
but thanks for careing :twisted:
regards kev[/quote:efcc2b0323]
I like to keep an eye on you. lol
Yes you can make money breeding fish. Pick your market. Keep overheads down and be prepared for the after hours work involved. Not too difficult until someone crashes the price you were getting for your fish by $10ea overnight!
I've already said price drop was bound to come but $3.50 retail was still a couple of years off and we were selling ours as faster than we could produce them so were buying them in too at $7.50ea. Run out on occasion so don't see any supply and demand issue.
Just hope too many people havn't been discouraged.
Cheers Linda
linda
we have 2000 at $3.50 if you need them.
and 1000 peppermints @ 2cm
kev
Have my own thanks Kev.
Nice of you to offer though.
Cheers Linda
thank's linda for standing up for the little guy who like to breed fish for fun and make a little bit out of it but like you say kev has stuff it up for all, there was no need to drop the price that low, maybe he will rethink his price and make life a bit easier for people to sell there fish (no chance) off that.
so may be we will have to drop are price lower than his to get some where
i don't mind selling albino's for $3.00 @ 2cm or less in size like kev dose, because i can get them there in less than a month. less cost to me to raise to that size.
ps: have seen the size of kev's not that big at all that's why he can keep the cost down he don't have to wait 3 month's plus to get them to 3cm to 5cm insize like us breeder's like to do before selling them.
cheer's red
well
it looks like all the breeders of albino bn dont like my price.. :P
but all the buyers of them think i am king 8O
so i think you cant please everyone all the time... :evil:
so the next time i have a saturday super special i will ask everyones
appoval {not} :P :P :P
so what do you breed............. :x
glenn i am watching you watching me :o
kev
hey kev
a bit of everything that i can that is what my tank's will let me with out going overboard.
yes it would be nice if you upped the price a bit that is so we can make some little money to feed the kid's a little better.
ps: what you said about (so i think you cant please everyone all the time)
is so true in life, but some time's you can if you try had enough.
cheer's red
Let me get this straight, you guys want him to artifically inflate the price, thereby making himself an absurd profit, just so you all can maintain your small one?
yes well
this is it i cant beleve it you are telling me to put my price up
well thats a first :oops:
i think petrol is to cheep lets ask bp to charge $2 per ltr.. 8O 8O
no my price will only go down from here... :twisted:
dont get me wrong i would love to sell them for $20 each
but the market is not there any more they breed to easy
breed something thats hard if you want a high price......
regards kev
hey kev
just thort i would ask but knowing you would not raise the price.
that's just what i am doing right now breeding something that will bring in the money to substitute the loss on my albino's thank's for the advice.
cheer's red
Clown sucker
Cheers Linda
You know, realistically speaking, this is the silliest thread thats ever been on this forum.
Here's a bunch of weekend hobbiests (apologies to those doing this for a living) with no real overheads whatsoever and no taxes to pay, telling a shop to put his prices [b:65e604211e]up[/b:65e604211e], so they can augment their wages, while he is struggling to pay wages and myriads of overheads.
Most of the threads on here are usually denigrating the shops for their high prices, and now this.
Fair suck of the sav.
Theo
Ill have to think of more topics to get debate going,
But right now even if kev did raise his prices i dont think it would make much difference to the people in the know, but in saying that i know a few people that brought the albinos from kev, and took them to the super auction the same night and sold them for a profit.
Either way they aint worth $10-15 each anymore,
And no offence Red, but i personally wouldnt buy any fish off you becuase you advertised white crane on the forum, fine if its for a display tank, but if the young are going to the store or markets in full male colour i would be surprised if anyone on the forum would touch it.
Maybe you could clear that one up, for you, and so i dont look like the nasty one. Just dont make sense someone getting hold of the wholesaler for a display tank though.
Im with you Deagon - the shops are there to provide a livelyhood for the owner/manager and employees. It needs to cover many more overheads than the backyard breeder who is, unless they are a commercial breeder, just a hobbyist.
That backyard breeder also has a nine-to-five job or other means of income!
If you dont like it then I suggest you breed them in the numbers that Kev has been talking about and make yourself a tidy amount. Otherwise how about stop whingeing and enjoy the fact that new or more people can enter the hobby now because the fish are at a reasonable price.
We spend all this time bitching and moaning on overseas forums about how us poor aussies have to pay sooo much for catfish and when they finally come down to the equivalent overseas we cry hard done by..
Maybe we just like to whinge.
Anyway, that's my rant for the weekend. Have a good one.
Steve
Hey kev if you want ask what we want specials on or what we are breeding I wouldn't mind the the price of L46 L200 L236 all to drop by about $500 each.Wouldn't that be lovely.hahaha
Cheers Brian.
hey someone.
i don't use white crane food at all, i was offered the chance to get it form the importer at a cheap price to try help out people on this forum but do not sell it because i felt that people do not want it so saved me a lot of money by not ordering it.
i only use osi food and new life spectrum food for all my fish plus fresh vegie's so i don't care if you do not wan't to buy my fish there is people out there that do.
ps: people that have brough my fish have remarked how healty they are
maybe due to i spend all my time breeding and looking after them.
this is my income and livelyhood.
red
PART 2
Next we raise prices!If we sort this properly we could teach the petrol & concrete companies some thing,then we could hire ourselves out as consultants for the big companies.First the fish market then concrete & petrol than the telco's.
Cheers Lord Brian Ruler of the World.
Now theres something to think on!
Kev why not invest in a servo or 2.
The whole country would think you a KING when. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cheers Linda
yes guys i am amazed with this thread ......
lets bring them prices down 8O 8O
petrol :evil: who told you i am good with petrol... :oops:
must have be washdoc :cry:
kev
Come on Linda get in on ground floor & kev & I could ordain you & Bob King & Queen of South America.
Slightly off topic;
Linda, are you able to list the catties that you and Bob are using hormone treatment to trigger? Im curious to know which plecs are being induced.
Cheers
Steve
Don't hormone any of the L numbers.
Have done on Synodontas Eruptus sucessfully and working on 2 other rarer Synos when Bobs setup for breeding again in Cairns.
Have done Wood Cats sucessfully sort of. No live fry I mean, first lot the eggs weren't fertile and the next lot a small percentage hatched but no luck with getting them past 2 days. I think our male is a bit old and obviously need to look into the food and conditions better before next time.
Also have Black Asian Upside down Cats (my personal favorites) conditioning up now.
All up have around 10 unusual ones to play with but the L numbers don't need it. Just get the breeding setup right get them into really top condition and be 100% sure you have the right numbers of boys to girls (also watch out for rogue egg eaters in the group).
Should have new Pleco facility finished by end April....Had to make a few changes to make more cyclone proof but hoping to have them settled in by mid May.
Cheers Linda
Thanks Linda, very informative as usual :D
hi all
any one know the term
PRICE FIXING :?: :?: :oops: :oops:
step lightly allready had a phone call 8O 8O
regards kev
Now I have been fish since I was five now 34 yo the last 15 years have done it quite well I can't believe red you think you cannot make money off the price kev is offering $2 a fish isn't bad considering he takes 1500 a month a fish room doesn't cost that to run. I know mine here is 70 tanks and at most it cost me about $120-150 a month to run. I am also about to put in a hot house to expand my breeding even more. I am having difficulty supplying my market at the moment but in the next month or 2 will be able to cover my customers needs. By the way that costing is electricity, food, water and chemicals. But I have my ways of doing it.
I also design and use my own filtration (not systems in case you were wondering). So rather than winging about the price you won't get for a fish, how about go into something you can get a price for. I think kev is great for lowering the price. e is thinking about turnover after all the shops and wholesalers don't make money out of the fish sitting in the tanks until they sell. So why not sell more at a lower price and make a bigger profit in the long run, than sell a few fish at a higher price and sit in your tanks(more chance of them to die).
I stand firm and sell to my wholesaler at an agreed price and find I have no problem in selling them. The only problem I have is supplying a constant supply.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Kev, Kev, Kev,
do yourself a favour.
Think about that last post and delete it before too many people see it.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!:
Cheers Linda.
i did not say you could not make money of fish at $2.00 per fish or more i have been doing that for along time now and think it ok, justed replyed to this subject thanking someone for standing up for the little guy knowing that it would not help, then having people saying thing's that are not needed anyway if this is what end's up happing i just won't bother anymore.
ps: i don't thing age has anything to do with it i my self are 49 year's and counting.
so i will now not bother with this forum anymore farewell too all.
red
mmmmmmm no
i had a call from a qcf member thats a lawyer and said tread lightly...
i am not the one saying that someone should change there price 8O
i sell my fish for i like :oops:
sometimes expencive :roll:
but most of the time cheap
and will be cheaper from now on....
regards kev
I didn't say age had anything to do with it I was just stating how long I've been around the game. As for leaving the forum that is your choice it would be a shame to see someone leave.
As for things not neede being said that is what a forum is about to put everyones point across and think about what everyone has said.
Oh and by the way I am one of the little guys the amount of times I have been burned buying expensive rare fish only to find that somone flooded the market a week later because they held back their fry and hit the market place all at once, is uncountable. Mate we have all been there.
Alrighty you can't have sarcasim on this forum.There are 2 sides to every story lfs trying to keep prices down & cover overheads & breeder trying to sell fry & do better than break even.So for me breeders either breed a consistently good selling fish & sell in bulk at smaller prices as Braddo said, or be flexible & try & breed fish & sell fry before market price drops & when it does move on to the next species.It's just depends on what you want to do as breeders , you can have the safer money in selling bulk or try & do the juggle & predict what the next big seller is going to be b4 the buyers know their going to buy them.( if you can do this get out of fish & buy shares , you'll be a millionare.).Or only sell privately on a smaller scale.There is always the other option of opening your own lfs as kev & others have done.
There are some options there are undoubtally more out there so pick whats right for you.
Cheers Brian.
I'm only used to seeing stuff like this happen on the "other" forum.
you too
lungy will be proud 8O
kev
I think its good, dont get emotional, just having a discussion with different points of view. No need to leave.
More talk, less trader.
Thats what this forum needs.
this is the best thread for 6 months :lol:
reminds me of the good old white crane days were the threads went on for weeks :cry: :cry:
kev
Hi Kev.
Just wondering what the prices on your albinos are?
I went to the "Harbour Town" shop today. They didn't have a price on the tank. Was to scared to ask in case someone thought I was having a go....
Didn't see any O/S or peps... :wink:
hi everyone
is it just me or do other peple think its rediculous asking a shop to RAISE their prices? i mean, i understand its hard for the little people to make a living here but hey, TOUGH LUCK, thats buisness. and what about the even littler people, the hobbyists. idont have a heap of money to spend but i love my fish so the cheaper the better.
good on ya Kev, luv the prices, what about the peps now :P
I started to read this post, late last night then fell asleep. Thought I was tired, but when I started to read this post again this arvo same thing happened. :wink: So I am only replying to the dribble on the first page. Yep couldn't even get past first page.
Good on Kev for offering cheap prices, breeders have been supplying to lfs for years at lets say (a) price, then selling them privately themselves for (a) price if not cheaper. What a bunch of di ck he ads. Not very smart now is it :idea:
Then these same people support & cheer places who only sell dry goods. Not exactly looking after the industry now are we people :?: :idea: :lol:
As soon as a shop jumps on a bargain, all the girls come out & have a :cry: :roll: What a joke. :lol: Heres 50cents. :lol: I thought this was Aussie not England :?:
Tropheus can be bought for $2 overseas, give or take. :idea: Go hard Kev :lol:
Hobbyists hmmm, funny word that. :lol: what does it mean :?: :idea:
(Just read/skimmed the rest of the post. I should go away more often... thanks for the laugh people) :lol:
Frenchy :D
Here's a couple of different perspectives.
For those who don't seem to mind that kev is flogging albino b/n and soon tropheus off at low prices, indicates that those people are not currently breeding these themselves therefore has no impact on them.
But what if a breeder was spending a lot of time, money and effort into breeding say some QUALITY fronnys or tangs or whatever, only to find that kev has a super special on fronnys or tangs for $ 2 each next weekend ?
They'd be dirty alright...... because all of a sudden it affects them.
Not only do they lose money on their juveniles, but the breeding adults are then just about worthless as well.
I realise retail outlets always use a "lost leader" item to get the customers thru the door and then make some decent money on food or accessories or whatever.
Maybe an astute customer should just buy the lost leader item and that would be it.
What if say..... an outlet down the road was selling say..... HBH food for not much above cost.
I bet kev would be on the hooter to that supplier to have a whinge, because it would affect his sales , asking why the hell is he selling the product that cheap for?.
I don't see much difference between the two scenario's.
So before my son and i expand our "hobby" into a small business, I'm still trying to figure out this industry....... wish me luck 8O
regards darren
Ah I do breed albino bn's if you are planning on expanding into a small business with fish breeding than you better realise not everything that is expensive when you buy it will be expensive when you sell the young.
The way I hear it is albino bn's a common as hens crap on the gold coast so why pay higher prices for something that is common. I also know for a fact that any shop that has a quarentine room can import tropheus for betwwen $1-$2 depending on species so don't blame kev for the tropheus factor.
We are here fighting amongst our selves over fish prices when we should be looking at what the prices are off the asians. I mean we can't compete unless we mass produce these fish so unless you got the room don't breed them.(i know albino bn's can't be imported but they have proven to be prolific breeders for those that has them)
If you want a good example look at the praecox rainbows they were $250 a pair when they first come out now they are lucky to get $3 for em so guys welcome to the industry.
No body is arguing that the price was never going to fall. It does on everything that will breed FACT. No one expects the money they outlaid.
Almost everything we own paid top dollar for then it was new and happy to let the price fall away but what we seem to miss is that he crashed the price out by $10 a fish overnight. Okay its now worth $2 and thats where they'd have ended up anyway somewhere down the track but people have been caught out and not by the natural progressive drop in price. If someone was sitting on 1000 babies they have lost at least $5000. Thats the point some of you don't seem to see.
Peacocks are also cheap in Asia.
What if Kev decides to make them a $2. retail fish next week. What will that do for you and your plans.
Cheers Linda
I know peacocks are a cheap fish what you don't realise or know is that I have my market set I deal directly with an importer that tells me what he wants me to breed and that is what I do, so my plans won't be affected by the way i am more than willing to match asian imports on certain fish to sell quantity and can gauruntee better quality.
The things is know you know why I don't sell many fish here as my outlet takes as many as I can supply. He also lets me know what he can get from asia and generally stick to the species that he has trouble getting it is called comunication with your customer and it is loyalty which seems to uncommon in this industry. Not only that I supply him with bread and butter fish he can't import.
By the way a you and bob will be in the same boat now you have that business especially if it includes and import room and quarentine facilities.
I have been trying to crack into this business for so long and am finally understanding what is happening so I either play the game or get out of dodge. I have decided to play the game and have joined forces with a long time friend which you know and take his advice on what he wants and the beauty is I sell fish he buys fish, we work together. I am only trying to get ahead with what I love doing I am not in it for wholely and solely the money but it has been my passion for 29 years and I don't know too many people that are passionate enough about something to keep doing it.
It's like the stockmarket - put all your cash into Telstra when you bought them at $9 and you're now sitting on a pretty loss. Had your cash split between 10 stocks evenly and your loss from Telstra is considerably less.
So with fish if you're only breeding one type hoping to make money out of it then you bring unnecessary risk upon yourself.
Kev is a businessmen and i praise him for what he is doing. How many of these people whinging have their "hobby" registered as an actual business? Or are they just trying to make undisclosed profits from their "hobby"?
At the end of the day a hobby is a hobby - for enjoyment not profit. Want to make a profit then run a business and either research your niche market or spread your risk.
:D :D
This is called investment I guess. You will never know what will be happening the next day. For example, I was thinking to change my AUD to RM when I went back for holiday and I found the exchange rate is 1:2.8 but I was thinking may be it will go up again so I refused to change at the moment. But now, the exchange rate is 1:2.59. So if I have AUD20,000. I lost RM4,200 just because I refused to change the money at the time.
So you will never know what to expect....
What made a fish to get a high price, when I first came to Australia. I don't dare to start fish keeping as the fish here are so much more expensive compare to where I came from, why in Malaysia, wholesaler can wholesale their guppies at RM0.20 and retail at RM1.00 but here 8O, an electric yellow at RM0.60 and retail at RM2.50 but here 8O .
I guess is because the labour for aussie are much higher compare to oversea, but then again, what your labour worth is base on what you do and what you think you are worth....
I always think breeders are hard to get good money out of their fish and that is why I don't breed fish but only sell fish :lol: :lol:
This is business......
What is hobby???
You are lucky then. Others aren't as fortunate.
I sincerely hope you can maintain your agreement.
Bob and I both love this industry too
and only wish to see good things for all not just the big guys.
Cheers Linda.
I understand what you're saying braddo - we sell to a wholesaler on a small scale.
It seems to be their way or the highway - to a certain degree.
but isn't what you just explained the whole point?
he tells you what he wants in advance - you breed it for an agreed price.
example
so you have bred maybe 200 yellows for example expecting $5 each for them after raising them for 10 - 12 weeks, fed them good food, etc,etc
expecting to get what you agreed with ,
but someone has been stockpiling them or somehow someone gets hold of a large quantity and instead of selling them at an AVERAGE market price, they decide to flog them off at retail for $5 each......
aint no way you're wholesaler friend is gonna give you $5 each anymore - maybe $2
i notice on your wish list is white calvus , gold faced comps etc.
what if you finally grab a few breeders and pay good money for them.
by the time you raise a few to sell - the public can buy them at kevs for $4 each....
not having a personal dig mate - just trying to explain it another way.
tHAT IS LIFE, MATE
God..I can't win,
Turn my back for 5 seconds on phone and the dogs jumped up on my chair and pinched my biscuits!!!!
Cheers Linda
[quote:e6619a5650="dammwoman"]God..I can't win,
Turn my back for 5 seconds on phone and the dogs jumped up on my chair and pinched my biscuits!!!!
Cheers Linda[/quote:e6619a5650]
LOL :lol: on Linda
Cheers :wink:
Lucky i guess she didn't get the scotch as well lol
Cheers Linda
so lets have a vote
what fish should i have in my next super saturday sale...
best if its is on the import list....
regards kev
ps glenn i love the add......
[quote:b621a4f36c]what fish should i have in my next super saturday sale..[/quote:b621a4f36c]
EVERYTHING :P
lets see......frontosa, peppermint bn, gold nuugget plecos, albino bn 8) , any catfish
soory...me luv supa saturday :P
Demasoni Demasoni Demasoni !!!
(for next super Saturday)
Mitch
Hey firemouth it did happen too me on a number of occasions I remember with Ps crabros I paid $30 a fish for em and let only a few go but someone at the wholsaler where I sold them bought the whole lot bred them and flooded the market but that is this industry and I have learn't from that. And as for price it is agreed upon and set after a discussion they always ask me what I want first then if they think it is fair they buy if not we talk about it and check out what others are selling them for.
I hope this agreement holds true too linda as the wholesaler I deal with has been a friend for 10 years. So far he has done good by me I was breeding tropheus and when he told me the overseas price he bought my breeders and gave me other fish to replace them for what he paid me for the tropheus. (it was more than import price). Linda I have met Bob and know how passionate he is and regard him in the highest for that in this industry.
Whether we like it or not we are always gonna wind up having to compete with someone else for our markets, this I have learn't too and have lost markets due to helping young guys get there foot in with one of my customers only to be undercut by them and lose that customer. Yes I got pissed, Yes I wanted to smash em, but I got over it and moved on sooner or later they reep what they sowed and I had the customer back.
Like I said I have learn't to play the game and change the rules if need be it is just unfortunate that we have too do that with something we love. I have started to use that a customer I lose today due too someone flooding the market is 2 customers I pick up tomorrow for showing quality in the fish I produce. If I can produce better quality and sell at a similar price as the cheap guy i will do it. But sooner or later the cheap guy fades away and my quality will still be there and the buyer doesn't mind giving a bit extra for it. I did this recently with bn's somone undercut me 20 cents a fish took some of my market I left mine the same price and pulled the market back as they were smaller and the customer lost too many.
I also believe that you look after your customer and no matter what goes on around the customer will always come back. There are too many guys in this industry out to make a quick buck and destroy others but that attitude bites them hard and rolls back under the log they came from.
I can also see where you are comign from with the yellow wxample and agree with you on that but there is not much we can do about that except look it that, that $400 is better in my pocket than the other guys but remember the guy that has been stockpiling them has sold the whole lot in one hit and more than likely won't sell anymore for a while because he has flooded the market so he sells his breeders and they become scarce again and the price goes back to $5 a fish within 6 months which happens a lot in this industry too, actually with almost every fish.
By the way nothing personal taken actually enjoying the discussion.
nice reply
you are correct carma
what goes arround comes arround :lol:
kev
yes braddo,
good response
constructive too!
obviously in it for the long term, and learnt to roll with the punches.
well gotta go - must sell our frontosa colonies.......
before saturday's super special
2000 fronnys imported $2 each :lol: :lol: :lol:
sorry..... couldn't resist :wink: :wink:
shutting up now....
regards darren
So when is the next sale kev? Also what store?
Hey this wasnt started as an advertisement for kev, i might have to remove them just to keep to the topic.
Gentlemen I too have enjoyed this discussion but not had a lot of time tonight.
I do however want to publicly say that it seems Red was offended because he thought I called him a Clown Sucker!
The Clown sucker post was ment to be a smart ass answer to Kev's question on what to make next Saturdays special and in no way directed at Red. Sorry Red if it caused offence.
I am direct and to the point in my opinions but don't stoop to name calling.
Night guys
Linda
[quote:3e97b8dd16]i notice on your wish list is white calvus , gold faced comps etc.
what if you finally grab a few breeders and pay good money for them.
by the time you raise a few to sell - the public can buy them at kevs for $4 each....
not having a personal dig mate - just trying to explain it another way.[/quote:3e97b8dd16]
{Yes I know this wasn't directed at me, explaining the point of view from me.}
There already a few people breeding white calvus already, I happen to be one of them.
If Kev gets them cheap, good for him. I wont be a cry baby about it. I got into this particular hobby, because my mate had cichlids. I thought how cool, where these fish from, look at that one cashing the others.... Got into it from there.
Breeding fish is cool to watch(parental bond...), a challenge at times & sometimes lucky.... 8)
I got White calvus because I like the fish, not the money. I been pretty lazy with them too, if I saw it at dollar value,(like some) what is 8 batches worth of fry worth? (Adam, I only don't really need to know:lol:)
I have saved 2 batches of them, finally pulled my finger out :lol:
Now this is depending on the market.....I will supply these to a lfs at a good price (2 sorry), both of them for helping me out. Called scratching backs. :wink:
All you lot crying about the money, well stiff sh&t. If u want money, well that, then makes it a business. Like the majority of small business, you took a wrong option, "oh dear how sad never mind" Then again, because of Kev, people may stop breeding them, price may inflate again & your back on a winner. (I did that with Salvini's, then again I kept them because I liked them :idea: ) I could of got Albinos ages ago too, but I am not a cattie fan, & also I thought the price will drop quick smart, as did others who turned them down.) Gee if a kiwi can figure that out :roll:
My concern is with Asian stock, the quality on some species can be varied. Look at some of the discus for a start, but thats another story. Speaking of Kiwis, err I mean pot stirers, how about u start another topic Glen? :lol:
ps;[quote:3e97b8dd16]breeders have been supplying to lfs for years at lets say (a) price, then selling them privately themselves for (a) price if not cheaper.[/quote:3e97b8dd16]Wonders why no one has argued that point? Then again truth hurt :wink:
Frenchy :D
Shite don't tell me fronties are the next super special :P
There goes my colony 8O
Hehehe couldn't help myself
All this thinking has been givin me a headache.
Ok if these fish r so cheep
Where are mine every 1 seams to have some but me :?
So I'm not happy Jan lmao
The old hands will recognise the marketing ploy for what it is. :D
It is nothing new in the aquarium game. Haig Rd Aqu and Aqualand were infamous for their 10 cent specials in the sixties and seventies.
Inferior undersize product, sold at a loss, advertised as "Super Specials". Then quote that as a bench mark to force prices down on subsequent purchases.
Quality, good size albino B N are still pulling 3 to 4 times Kev's shop price.
I seem to remember 1.5 cm TL peppermints for around the $20 mark a couple of years ago.
That product line didn't last beyond the "Super Sale" stage.
Clever hobby aquarists will realize that Bristle nose (normals, albinos, longfin, BGA's ) are not on the import list. There is no competition from overseas.
Good size, quality Bristle nose have maintained their value for the past 35 years all over Australia.
Little flurries with undersize, inferior fish, are not going to upset the general Australia wide market.
Some people clearly don't have to sense to see the difference between a 2cm fish and a 6cm one though.
I have taken a particular dislike to this because the weekend before Kevs special a good Retail customer of mine who has been for a long time rang me to see if I had any Albinos left here.
She had a lady customer who wanted 2 and as she had none left told her she might be able to get a couple in for her to which this woman agreed.
I looked around and found 2 which were in a large pond and well grown for their age and told her I'd drop them in for her. These fish were 6 -7 cm and as fat as fools.
I've taken a few special order fish in to her and instead of the usual shop markup she only adds a couple of dollars on to the special order stuff as she know it will be picked up quickly.
The woman turned up on the Saturday and was very happy with them until told they would be $15ea.
This woman turned on the retailer and screamed that she had seen them advertised for $3.50 at another shop and that she was a bloody rip off and wouldn't be coming back in here.
The shop was full of people who all heard the rantings and I doubt that any of you would agree that she deserved this abuse.
Doesn't affect me.
She paid me what I had asked for them.
And yes this customer is ignorant and the shop may be better off without her but I still find it anoying.
Cheers Linda
hi
my albinos bn were 4cm plus ask the buyers of them....
my 400 peppermints arrived today and to my supprise there all 4 to 5 cm
so lets see what will i sell them for mmmmm :evil: :evil:
let the games begin 8O 8O :evil:
sorry and my frontoza came ut of q room today to.....
kev
100% in agreement with you Linda. I mean $15 bucks each aint bad for a 6-7cm albino bn.
I'll get in before you all and say that Kev did state conditions to the special and obviously this woman didn't bother to read them and that is most definately not Kevs fault.
Shes clearly not the sharpest person around and all shops get their share of these customers but my customer was hurt by it and isn't on the internet so didn't have a clue what this woman was even on about.
Cheers Linda
The joys of retail Linda, can't keep everyone happy. Funny to watch customers sometimes, will they buy the bigger one at a better value, or buy the little cheap one. There u go, I just told you how I see it. Others just want the cheapest, "it will grow" If your "friend" stayed polite, then I'd say the other customers would of seen that lady as a fool.
[quote:97e58d1389]The old hands will recognise the marketing ploy for what it is.[/quote:97e58d1389]
& they will also recognise sour grapes by someone who obviously paid to much for theres too. {thats my view, cant speak for others that be rude} What Kev has done,{IMO} is what everyone does, in all industries & have been doing for years.
Greed is one of the impulses used in sales.
Where I work, we grow alot of our own stock, we also import some goods direct from Asia, so we too can run the "odd" special. Its to get people in the door. :wink:
Yep the humble old bristlenose still stays around the same. Customer demand has done that. Majority of fish keepers have a bn, either to eat algae, bn are tough, the mouth looks cool on the glass, they get along well with others....
Albino bn breeders, take a deep breath, now count to 10.... Just do as you were doing, why :?: the majority of Joes wouldn't know about the specials anyway. :idea: S.E Qld has a few other lfs I believe. :?:
Then again :lol: Kev could have a steady supply, at a great price, word will get around... :roll: :lol:
Frenchy :D
wow this albino talk has really 'ruffled a few scales', i can't see Kev doing anything wrong with crashing the market (you should blame the breeder more then Kev's business).
I can understand your pain if your holding onto 100+ babies and can only get $2 when 2 months ago could of got $5+. But the reality is are you in it for hobby or a business... if its the first and you feel 'stung' and have come here to bitch and dis* Kev maybe you should check the ATO website as to what consitutes as a business, and perhaps should reconsider not 'putting all your eggs in the one basket'.
At the end of the day business is business, source your fish at the best price and sell either cheaply or 'market price'. But obviously with 1000+ fish Kev has its easier to turn over the 1000 at below market prices, in shorter period of time (and did i mention less risk!!!)
---stock pick of the week is CUY ---
:lol:
why should i check the ATO webpage ????
kev
[quote:768ba5fe39="aquariumwarehouse"]why should i check the ATO webpage ????
kev[/quote:768ba5fe39]
I'm not talking about you... refering to those who have been ranting on about the BN price drop, and claim to be hobbiest.
[quote:2754d3b2d7="aquariumwarehouse"]why should i check the ATO webpage ????
kev[/quote:2754d3b2d7]
he's saying if ppl have come here to bitch and whinge at you because they can't cash in on the hobby, [u:2754d3b2d7]they[/u:2754d3b2d7] should visit the ATO website. :wink:
What do we want here pricing like petrol? this is a unregulated (fair) market.
If we start fixing prices it eventually will bite us on the arse!
Cary