i guys, I was desperate for some food last week for my african cichlids. They are all haps, peacocks, fronts and comps etc. I popped into woolies to get some cheap flake food. I normally buy HBH and the other brand with the purple branding forget the name). I checked the ingredients on the back of the go-pet tropical fish food and it said:
fish Meat, fish eggs, daphnia, fish meal, brine shrimp, dried mosquito larvae, plankton and chlorella.
now when you compare this to a specialised cichlid flake, the notable thing that is absent is any wheat based ingredients. surely this is a good thing. Wheat products are usually in the top 2 ingredients of most of the expensive brands. I don't know any fish that eats wheat in the wild. Also this stuff is missing all the myriad of vitamans etc of the expensive stuff.
This cheap stuff really smells fishy compared to the expensive cichlid food, which often doesn't smell at all.
I wonder if this stuff contains wheat flour but they have just decided to leave that out of the ingredients list?
considering this stuff is a third/quarter the price of the specialist stuff, it certainly raises a few questions.
I also feed my african cichlids feeder fish and feeder shrimp, lettuce, spinach, all sorts of aquatic plants (I don't *feed* it to them, they just help themselves) and zuccini. You'd think they'd be getting all the nutrients they need without adding synthetic sources to their food.
thought this might be a good topic for discussion, what do you feed your africans and why?
Feed all our fish mainly homemade frozen food mainly to cost but noticed that the fish are far healthier when fed my own mix. Did feed HBH flake once a day but only because we didn't want to sell fish that didn't know what flake was and not eat after sale.
Don't personally like HBH but as Bob worked at Bay our hands were tied and couldn't use another food.
Have noticed receintly that with nearly all our fish gone north and the mincer to make food has gone with them that now I'm using nearly all flake food as diet they are not as good in condition as they were.
Cheers Linda
Just make sure the fish still get vit C. A varied diet is the key, just look at us & other animals (IMO) Those that eat a proper diet & not so much of the processed products are healthier. My dogs get dog biscuits, but that is just as a filler & to add any minerals/ vitamins that could be missing in their diet.
(touch wood) Dogs have been to vets only to get the chop, odd tick removed and get required shots. 8O
Frenchy :D
I feed my fish the following regardless of brand name
flakes
live daphnia
live mozzie wrigglers
vegie and prawn mix with multi vitamins and minerals
Gday Linda,
Will you share your recipe?
Cheers,
Vien.
............................................. ........................................................... ............................................... .......................................................... .......................... its not just the ingredients in the food that makes it a good food. you have to think of how well the food is prepared and stored. Homebrand Flakes always feel like they are stale. and like justin said fish need vitamins aswell.
and as for not eating wheat products in the wild, does that mean it is not good for them??? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I dont think there are many Zuchini's with rocks sitting on them in rivers for bristlenose and plecos to eat
really i just reckon feeding any shit food likle that to your fish is just being cheap and lazy. :evil:
I really dont think that most of the major brands break the ingedients right down, as that would defent there research and allow others to copy.
But no i wouldnt be feeding my fish a supermarket no name brand, fine for gold fish or the emergency when you dont have any. But would you yourself eat nothing but no name brands??
Cosmotiger1, your post is not very constructive. How do you come to the conclusion that Go-Pet Tropical Fish Food Flakes are "shit food"? This thread is a discussion on the possible merits of the food as apposed to other foods. You haven't really qualified your statement.
Why do you think it is "shit food"?
Why do you think the GO-PET brand should be lumped in the same category as home brand food? These flakes smell wonderfully fresh.
Do you think there is a definate corrolation between price and quality?
Also, why do you think feeding them the cheaper flake food is "just being cheap and lazy", when I feed my fish (as previously stated) feeder fish and feeder shrimp, lettuce, spinach, all sorts of aquatic plants and zuccini?
As you say, fish require vitamins, but what I was asking is are the synthetic, added vitamins really required when the fish are getting a varied diet of live and dried foods? If you look on any human vitamin package, they will all state somewhere that "vitamins can only be of benefit where there is a dietry deficiancy.
And zuccini is very close in composition to the cichlid's natural food source compared to processed wheat products.
I'm not offended by your post, I'd just love to hear the reasons for your opinions that's all.
[quote:d2e3adb251]I also feed my african cichlids feeder fish and feeder shrimp, lettuce, spinach, all sorts of aquatic plants (I don't *feed* it to them, they just help themselves) and zuccini.[/quote:d2e3adb251]
I really wouldnt feed my fish the cheaper brands, in fact i have moved to New Life Spectrum, (EVEN MY TROPHEUS) , and have never seen better colour and more life out of them.
Maybe you need to look into the actual value of this food, I know that frozen vegies have proven to have more vitamins that fresh food off the shelf.
An african kid can live on a $1 a day worth of flour and water and mix protein, Is he really getting nutrition??
Not saying its not as nutritionish(spelling) as the expensive brands, but i think you would need to look at it scientifically before changing the diet.
And feeding it once a week is not the same as once a day, so i think trying to convert people who only ever feed the same food could be a mistake.
Wheat = Starch? Does anyone out there know which class of stomach enzymes do Malawi and Tangs have? It would be interesting to know if fish can break down starch as easily as we humans can.
I would not think that fish can break down starch as easily as we can, this is due to the fact that over thousands of years, they have evolved to digest their native food as efficient as possible. Changing this diet can have a detrimental effect on their organs. This is shown to be true when fish are fed on a high-protein diet to which they are unaccustomed to. It does lead to more growth and sometimes even better colours, however the fish were shown to have poor organ development and a shortened lifespan. I'll chase up the link for the experiment when I can.
One more thing, not all labelling would be correct. Just because we have a body that regulates ingredient listing with products made here, it does not mean such rules apply overseas. I think in the end, it is up to your fish to decide if a food is good or not. Feed it and make observations.
Cheers,
Vien.
ok well i coudnt really be bothered going into detail, but people generaly take advise from people who are in the know.
keeping this in mind, who has more knoweledge in this field then people who deal with fish for a living ( ie LFS owners).
with most lfs they sell the few brands they consider to be the best for fish. Well when i ran a shop thats how i did it. i tried different foods and only sold the best of these.
ive been into nearly every lfs on the coast and i havent seen this brand you are talking of.
but i tried asking the guy in woolies whether that food was good for my cichlid and he said i would probably be better off going to the doctor and getting some cream for it lol (just joking) :D
Foods....Well, it certainly is a good question that you ask as yes....with such a huge variance in prices from supermarket foods to the very premium lines...what is really the difference?
I personally only use the very best stuff that i can buy to feed my breeding fish, and then depending on the fish type and location i mix it up a lot with other products as well for feeding adult fish or low value fish.
I've done a few interesting trials if anyone is interested..this one of direct comparisons of flakes that i use.
#1 vs #2 vs #3.(I'm not sure how safe it is to mention product names here...all flake foods that i use for variety of fish- i do use 7 varieties of flake mind you)
Fish all in a sumped tank, shallow 4ft tank with dividers so making up 3 'tanks'.
same batch of malawans (from the same mouthful).
in 2 months...
Tank 1. 3.2mm average
Tank 2. 2.8mm average
Tank 3. 1.9mm average
let's just say that was proof enough for me as to what was the best food for me to use, but surprisingly, #2 food was a good 20% cheaper than food #3. It wasn't just growth rates either, Tank 1 fish were generally better looking, brighter looking and generally better colour coming through.
Price of foods can be tricky hey as different places vary the margins on food so much between themselves but basically- feed your fish the best you can within your budget, and that may not be relative to $'s.
Varying the diet is the big thing..each of my fish gets at least 3 different products in their diet.
But....you've got me interested in another comparison so if anyone would like to suggest to me 3 different types of flake, i will do the same test again for the forum here on the three types of flake, on say, the next batch of blue dolphins and the next batck of electric yellows...i'll put identical fish numbers and electronically weigh out food quantities.
So...what flakes would people like compared, this is going to be very interesting?
I'll also do it on other comparible food types if people are interested, comparing growing out of other fish on pellets or wafers.
Cheers,
Andrew.
id like to see
HBH Cichlid flake frenzy (1 of my fav's) in the test
cheers mate.
well when i said lfs owners are generaly more knowledgeable i forgot agout you andrew lol.
Andrew,
your test would indeed be interesting. it would be great if you could use go-pet tropical flake as part of the experiment. I would be willing to contribut financially to the cause seeing as you would be going to so much trouble.
On the issue of local fish shop owners, I agree that many of them are very knowledgable, but from a clinical/scientific perspective they are, generally, probably not the best source of data as they will, generally, be influenced by some sort of commercial imperitive. Hypothetically if the best fish food by far was some cheap taiwanese import that gave a profit margin of 2c for every 5kg they sold, they probably wouldn't be selling and recommending it.
I don't mean this as a slur on local fish shop owners as I find them to be generally fantastic people that do great things for our hobby.
glad I've got everyone thinking!!
Yea i would be interested to see the outcome of this test, New Life Spectrum would be a great one to add in there aswell.
how about white crane to make it really controversial?
or perhaps a 4th sample with a mix of the other 3 foods?
Rightio team,
The challenge will be on.
I'll be trailing NLS, HBH Frenzy, and Go-Pet....just need to get those particular products up here so give me a week or two and we'll get started.
i am also going to trial a few pellets as well in another one so will keep details posted in a thread i will start when the products arrive.
Results will have to be concealed as to which product was which though, sponsors on this site all sell various products and i too like to support our sponsors, all i'll do is demonstrate if there is a difference or not ok.
Cheers all, your first query Paul was certainly a valid one.
Andrew.
Hey Andrew
Id like to throw my support into the test if you like
And ill donate a food for ur tests free of charge freighted to your door
If you like let me know and ill get one on its way
Ill have to tracked down some GOPet but i stock NLS and HBH
Brad
Hi Brad,
Champ, that would be a very generous offer so if that's ok, i would certainly like to take you up on it.
I'll be able to get some supermarket food from the woolworths here in Blackwater but as for a small amount of HBH and Spectrum, that would be great, thank's very much.
So, the "Aquariums Alive" sponsored flake fish food challenge is on. I'll get some photos of the tank and system to be used and kick off a new thread in this forum if not tonight then over the weekend.
Thanks Brad.
Andrew.
If you don't name names how can it be of benefit to anyone?
Well guys i am sending some HBH cichlid Flake Frenzy some NLS grow pellet some NLS freshwater flake with garlic
That will go with the Go-pet that Andrew can get
So hopefully we can see if there is a Difference in our fish from feeding them different foods
Brad
I'll be happy to send up some go-pet if you can't find it!
possibly in the future another test on food supplements like :
cyclops-eze, NatuRose, golden Pearls
I do not think there would be problems with you displaying results including the name of the food.
They will simply be results based on a study and if you display the results without favours to a certain food, I can see no basis for a complaint.
People will have to remember that this is one trial and it takes many and many trials to state a solid fact.
One more thing and I'll let someone else have their go. Different fish will grow at a different rate, that is just normal. Also in some species, different gender will grow at a different rate. Will the fish next to the door receive more sunlight, and therefore grows a bit faster?
Cheers,
Vien.
Sorry but i cant see sunlight having a great deal to do with it, if they are from the same batch of fry, i think thats as acurate as you can get, obviously it wont be one fish on each brand, so therefor an average can be worked out.
Sunlight in my opinion wont make alot of difference, havent you seen blast from the past?
sunlight....door.....
i don't think you know the size of my set up here (not many people do, if anyone would like to tour Blackwater you are always more than welcome!)...this tank is so far from sunlight, so many tanks between it and the windows that it's not funny so no fears there :)
as someone says, i'll have them from the same batch so no probs there either.
As far as naming which product is which, how do the site sponsors here feel about this...give me your comments and we'll see what the consensus is hey.
Cheers all,
Andrew.
Your mission Andrew if you choose to except it..... :lol:
Paul-w.c be no good in a trial. It is used to supplement a diet, not to be solely used on its on.
Trial will be intersting to see, can anyone tell me what are the ingredients in Go-Pet, that is all I would have to see.
As for starch digesting. There have been tests on some fish species, with no problems. The enzymes in the digestive track of fish are similar to that of mammals.
Kjeli Fohman {Enjoying Cichlids. Editor Ad Konings} did a test of different foods, used Red Zebs. The best results were on a Shrimp mix with Spirulina mixed in. If anyone wants to see a difference in there fish add Spirulina to the fishes diet.
Frenchy :D
Hi Andrew,
Mate go for Gold. More then happy for you to post up the results. Im very confident in NLS.
Ben :D
frenchy
how much spirulina powder do u recommend to add to your fish food?
cheers lloyd
here fishy fishy (if that is your real name! lol)
the ingredients of the go pet food are listed in the original post.
Lol, yeah saw that blast from the past. Yeah, that kid sure did grow big with no sunlight.
Even though I do prefer frozen and live food, when I'm ultra lazy I rely on spirulina tablets or flakes. Less worries on feeding too high a protein diet to some mbunas and the carnivores seem to relish it as well.
Cheers,
Vien.
this will probly sound dum but can u get a powder that you can just add to any fish food
That has all the stuff in it
Then it won't matter what food u get
Just a thought :roll:
didn't read all the posts but just couldn't go past this without pissing myself.....
"who has more knoweledge in this field then people who deal with fish for a living ( ie LFS owners)."
that's the funniest thing i have heard in awhile cosmo :lol: fair enough some lfs employees know their stuff but others just bullshit you to make a sale.
i use go-pet as a base flake and supplement with live and fresh foods....
value for money, and i prefer not to feed my fish wheat :roll:
[quote:9226c497de]here fishy fishy (if that is your real name! lol)[/quote:9226c497de] Take u long to think of that one?? very funny, I am still deciding if it is worth a laugh or just a chuckle. :roll: in the end got nothing :idea: By the way spelt with an ie.
I had a look at ingredients, looks good. Silly me for missing that at the start. :oops:
I am impressed to see Chlorella(Algae) in the ingredients. Chlorella is a very good source of vitamins, fibre :roll:, amongst others. 20% fibrous, 80% Nutrients. The Japanese love it, use it as a supplement. Very similar to Spirulina; use this or spirulina, or blue green algae, for your fish or yourselves, all have similar properties.
My only concern is what % of proteins is in this food. Does it have that on the label. Looking at all the ingredients seems it will be very high.
[quote:9226c497de]who has more knoweledge in this field then people who deal with fish for a living ( ie LFS owners)."
that's the funniest thing i have heard in awhile cosmo fair enough some lfs employees know their stuff but others just bullshit you to make a sale.[/quote:9226c497de]I had a good laugh at that too, Obviously dosen't visit many lfs. Thats the same as saying everyone that is on Cichlid forums, have more knowledge than those that arent. :lol:
[quote:9226c497de]now when you compare this to a specialised cichlid flake, the notable thing that is absent is any wheat based ingredients. surely this is a good thing. Wheat products are usually in the top 2 ingredients of most of the expensive brands. I don't know any fish that eats wheat in the wild. Also this stuff is missing all the myriad of vitamans etc of the expensive stuff. [/quote:9226c497de]Wheat is used to offer fibre, and Chlorella gives that & oh minerals, vitamins too. :roll: Then again, [quote:9226c497de]really i just reckon feeding any shit food likle that to your fish is just being cheap and lazy[/quote:9226c497de]. wasn't very umm, hmmm, well yeh....
Enjoy :!: :lol:
Frenchy :D
To answer Lloyd's question. ps; how is it going out there?
The recipe I have,
1kg of whole shrimps
1kg of green peas, frozen.
10ml Spirulina powder
100grams gelatine
10 drops of multivitamins
Optionally, 150grams pelleted fish food, (no mammalian fat) if you are going to feed the mix to juveniles.
If you are feeeding to piscivores , less greens. Herbivores less shrimp....
Frenchy :D
thanks for that frenchy,
all going good out here, every spare tank is full of young ones.
cheers lloyd
What is this "spare" tank you talk of?? 8O
Frenchy :D
Have been away so havn't answered question on recipe but very simular to Frenchys. I add Garlic and use Agar instead of Gelatine.
Make up about 10kgs in a batch but then use that as a base with some additions to smaller quantities from that base eg add more veges for the L number catties. More fish (usually whitebait) for Americans ect.
Puree down for tiny fry with a bit of egg yolk.
The Go Pet food does read as if it should be a good food and I think it is made by King British which is a leading English flake food company.
Had never looked at it before but I will give it a try in the future and see what I think.
Cheers Linda
rightio all,
Aquariums Alive has graciously sent up the food and it has arrived so give me tomorrow with the day off work to get some photos and move some fish around and we will kick off the trial....i'll get up a new post about it and we'll see how we go!
Cheers all,
Andrew.
this is a link that may be of some help
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php
With all else equil, calories = growth.
For this test to be scientificly valid each tank will have to be fed the same amount of calories at each feeding. If not, the group of fish that gets more calories is most likely to grow the fastest.
Fat: 9 calories per gram.
Protien: 4 calories per gram.
Carbohydrates: 4 calories per gram.