Hi all, posted this one the ACE forum as well, but thought would ask here too.
I bought 5 Tropheus a month or so back. My partner wanted them, I warned here of the possible problems etc, because the only place I had for them was in our community 8 footer. They have been fed a combination of sera flora and sera san, mainly sera san. They had been doing well until the last couple days, we have now lost 4, the other 1 doesn't look too bad yet, but I guess its only a matter of time. The think that concerns me is this, I have lost a spilopterus, 1 descampsii, 4 Tropheus and 1 calvus in the last week. Not sure that it would be all linked to the T's. The fish don't look to be unhappy or unhealthy, they just turn up dead in the morning. Don't have many test kits, but the pH is fine 8.0-8.5, water changes have not been missed, last one was yesterday, about 45%. I have added a few plants over the last couple weeks but would have thought that a drop in pH would be the only side effect I might see. 1 plant is on a small piece of wood, the others are on rocks. I will see if I can get my water tested at the LFS today and go from there I guess. Any sugestions greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Dave.
Is the pH stable? The difference between 8.0 and 8.5 is big.
are they on the substrate breathing heavily? dying 1 by 1 not all at once? Its quite possible that the fish have bloat, not just the tropheus. clout or metro from a lfs or vet would do the trick.
good luck
Yes pH is stable, test kit only measures in 0.5 increments, looks to be between 8.0 and 8.5. The spilopteus was the first to go, he was sitting on the substrate breathing heavily the night before he died. The Tropheus showed signs of bloat not long before they started dying. The Ectodus and the calvus showed no signs of being sick, just found them dead in the morning. I have not lost a fish for such a long time, this is a little unnerving.
Dave.
Just had basic water parameters checked at LFS, Ammonia is <0.1ppm Nitrite is <0.1ppm and Nitrate is between 5 and 10ppm. As stated before pH is between 8.0 and 8.5 and is stable. Went to the vets and she wants to do her own research re dosage rates etc and then should be no probs getting Metronidazole. Hopefully late today or first thing tomorrow. None of the other fish in the tank look sick at all, but my male ventralis and female spilopterus both seem withdrawn, if that makes sense. Not their normal selves, hiding at the back of the tank.
So thats where I'm at ATM.
Thanks.
Dave.
hi dave,
yep, bloat i reckon it is for sure.
i have a good about of metro here champ so if you are working this week, call in home mate and i can get to you straight away- if you want, get back to me and i could leave it outside on the patio for you.
it is not good mate, i have lost a whole colony to bloat before and it rocked my world so i take every step to ensure it never happens again- water changes religiously, only feeding flora, etc..
hope the rest hang on mate,
Andrew.
Thanks Andrew,
Picked up 2 bottles of liquid metro from the vet today. Thinking of pulling the affected fish out of the tank, isolate them in a smaller tank and treat from there. Will continue to feed metro dosed food to the ones that are still eating.
Thanks.
Dave.
Another night over, the news is not that good. The two fish that looked a bit sick are gone. 1 ventralis, 1 spilopterus. All other fish are still looking good so hopefully this might be the end of it, but I'll be keeping a very close eye on them for a while. I'll continue to soak their food in metro and see what happens.
Thanks again for everyones help.
Dave.
Dave,
Soaking the food in it is a good idea, but mate, bulk dose the tank too hey, not worth the risk of losing any more ventralis, they are magnificent fish of yours mate- and if they fish are not eating well then dosing the food doesn't obviously help.
Bulk water changes and syphon all detritus off the substrate helps too mate.
Best of luck Dave, anything i can do to help let me know, i am bacheloring this week and just 80 clicks down the road so can visit if you want a hand.
Cheers,
Andrew.
Gee Andrew, Thanks for the offer of help. All the fish that have not died appear to be eating. It's a bit hard to watch them all at feeding time. Will give the tank another water change and sand vaccuum before I go to work tonight, then dose the whole tank up. I think 5mg/L is the recomended dose for metro,(the vet recomended 30mg/L but that means I am going to need obscene quantities, 7 1/2 bottles for 1 treatment!)
Thanks again.
Dave.
i'll have a look on the bottles what the recommended rate is tonight for you and let you know mate....you'll know why i have them but the 1000's of tabs :) never know when a sumped system of 7 and 6fters might need some help.
It is awesome for helping out acei's, peacocks and other malawans that can be a bit touchy too so good to keep a supply on hand mate so good luck with this and get some more in case you ever notice a similar drama.
What happenned you reckon...had you missed a water change or two or a big water temp change?
Not real sure. No water changes have been missed, 40-50% each week. Double dose of dechlorinator each time. Rift lake salts added at about 3/4 recomended dose, same as always. I think can only have been a result of the Tropheus reaction to being fed the wrong food, then spread to the other fish, maybe not bloat as such but maybe a similar bacterial infection. Either that or something came home with the 1 fish I added to the tank a week ago. No more fish for me now untill I have some more breeding tanks setup and a couple spare for quarantine. I nearly cried when I saw the pics of the furcifers you have up for grabs, oh how beautiful they are. So that will be the next project, might have to come and have a rumage through your excess tanks :roll: I think species tanks will be the go now, and keep only excess fry in the community tank, this has been a real downer as far as breeding stock goes.
Thanks.
Dave.
G'day Dave,
No good mate, no good at all.
I am always wondering about disasters hey, especially on big sumped systems so i grabbed a couple of small uv lights and plumbed them in on a couple of systems, will monitor those systems before getting a couple of big one's for the big setups...i reckon one of the big ozone units that are on the 50m swimming pools would be easier sometimes :)
new fish can bring something in for sure mate- i'll talk to you about adding new one's when we next meet too.
diet, lloyd and i stick purely to the flora for tropheus champ, food might have been an issue but we cannot say for sure. I have always said that tropheus just want to die as soon as look at you, i've found it out the hard way with them twice so hence the 2yr break from them but back in now...no stopping me.
40-50% water changes is big as well on a tang tank, that can knock them a bit (changes that big can nail julidochromis hey) but all in all mate, you have good filtration on that system and it was a sweet tank so i have no idea, but bloat sounds to be why, how they got it cannot say for sure.
Cheers mate,
Andrew.
I know I should have seperated the new fish before adding them in with the rest. My fault, buying the fish I want before really having the room to accomodate them, quarantine etc. I sorta new it would come back and bite me on the butt, just pushed my luck for too long. So more tanks it is, I'll be able to fill any new tanks I get with blue dolphin fry, thought about filling the bath tub up and putting some in there as I no tanks spare. At least something is going ok i guess. So I'll be in the market for the 3' and 6' that I have been after for a while and if I can find, say 4 x 4' tanks, I'll get to it and build another stand, just as soon as the move is over.
Thanks.
Dave.
Rightio mate...
just give us a call if you need a hand moving hey, i know how heavy those big tanks are :)
Andrew.
You can almost count on it :wink:
Thanks.
Dave
what weekend are we talking about dave- do you have a definate timing on it yet?
Sorry to interupt, but does anyone else think that the amount of water changed is on the heavy side, especially for Tangs? Just a theory?
Sounds like your water changes are consistent, but how consistent is the water out of the tap? Do you age your water first....?
Frenchy :D
G'day Frenchy,
Yeah, i emailed/pm'd Dave about that, saying that is quite a high water change. On julies...you are risking killing them and if not, a good change of splitting an established pair if you change any more than 25% of the water so with tangs especially everyone, you need to do mostly regular, small water changes.
You are on the money there Frenchy.
Our tap water up here in CQ tends to be fairly tops and regular, rarely ever an issue with inconsistant pH or stuff.
You can't beat a big bin or tub in a shed that you will up with water and continually aerate but not everyone has the space...if you can though, it is the best way to add new water into your tank and especially now in winter, aging water in a spare spot in your fishroom minimises issues with such cold water being added to tanks!
Cheers,
Andrew.
No date set for sure yet Andrew, will let you know for sure when we work it out. Just have to find the right house to rent at these ridiculous prices :)
Thanks frenchy, I'll cut back on the water changes a bit from now on, 25-30% weekly. I don't have anywhere to age water at the moment so I'm afraid its straight out of the tap, with a double dose of dechlorinator and into the tank.
Thanks.
Dave.
I dont think a double dose of dechlorinator is a good idea.
I just use a big black drum & an airstone, bit of safe/prime everynow & then.
An old powerhead with leftover canister pipping connectted... to pump water into tanks.
As for double doses, well some declorinators don't have what they are tested to, as in how many parts chlorine/chloramines it removes. So double dose might on just cut it??? Each shire/state...whatever, all have their own recipe for treating water, how big a load of chemicals...
Frenchy :D
I know not all dechlorinators are the same, but one I used to use, I think it was the wardleys one, said that if chlorine was a over a certain concentration, to double the dose. I tested the chlorine content straight from the tap and it was well over the figure stated so I have been using double strength since then. What possible problems could be encountered from using too high a dose? Maybe I need to look at setting up some kind of storage for water change water. Water changed would be getting close to 1000L a week now, with more tanks on the way, so would need a pretty big drum 8) Will look into it.
Thanks.
Dave.
Yep big drum indeed. 8O Bit different to my 150lt drum. The joys of only having a few 4 footers & couple of 2 footers. :roll: Drum may get filled twice in a week if I am keen, usually just once.
That was my point about dechlorinators, I know some parts of aussie have high concentrations at the tap. :x {closet emoticon I could get to eewww}
Frenchy :D
dave...i have a spare water filter here, 5um filter in the 2nd canister is fantastic...over Easter believe it or not, the 4 days away at carnarvon. i left the hose running in the duboisi tank all weekend....my goodness. came home, had flooded the shed but didn;t lose a single tropheus, can you believe that!!!!! proof enough for me that the filters do the job!
DAve 1000l is a lot hey, the lawn loves it but !
I dont have a tub to age that much water in either and also do a strait from the hose job. in winter i limit it to 30% water changes, so as not to have a huge temperature difference, but all the tanks are kept a bit colder aswell ~26.
for my tropheus i dump 30-40 % weekly
the fry, leptos, xenos etc get 50 %
neolamprologus/angels get 40-50% fortnightly
amaricans get 50-70% weekly, they are dirty buggers..
bristlenoses get 50-70% every 2-4 weeks depending on fry
The better dechlorinaters have their dasoage ability on the side
water ager acn i think is 1ml treats 40l tank water 3mg chlorine
water ager CN 1ml treats 70l tank water @ 5mg
Prime 1ml treats 40l tank water @0.6mg/l ammonia, 3mg/lchloramine, and 4mg/l chlorine but is not that cheap
apparently the carbon cainister thing works a treat thats next on the fish room improvements.... not sure if i will be able to convince the wife that a 1200l water drum will fit in the aundry.. :wink:
You know the guys to get a hold of when you are moving!
Sorry to hear about the fish! Hope all the rest are well!
James
EDIT: We have a 4500l water tank now. Yay!