Recently read of an alternate way to treat whitespot.
As many would know there appears to be a super white spot virus around that is more active and resistant to common cures. Advise I have heard is drop[ the temperatue (yes drop and don;t rise as this slows down the bug and gives you a chance) and then use whitespot treatment at twice the reccomended rate.
The alternate I read about requires the use of two bare bottom tanks - and basically involves the removal of the fish from one tank to the other every day. This leaves the pupal stages behind in the old tank that is then cleaned and steralised for use the next day.
What are your thoughts?
Steve
the white spots you see on the fish are the cyst stage which can not be killed. So dropping the water temperature to extend this phase does not make any sense to me.
The active stage of white spot parasite does not drop to the bottom so I doubt bare bottom tanks wil work although it does for som worms or other ingested parasites.
Salt for salt tolerant fish species will help since this thickens the natural slime coat for fish and reduce infection and spread of whitespot.
Just my 2.2 cents
Quotesuper white spot virus
I'd say whatever it is,
It's probably not white spot.
Perhaps treating a fungus with that technique might work.
chill it down and double copper.
I like the heavily aerated, heat the tank
and throw in the malachite blend.
Dance around whooping scattering
handfulls of pool salt incensed
with melafix and pimafix synergistic incensore thingys method.
Works for me
:)
Most 'super white spots' I have seen have been velvet or worse.
not to say whitespot can't run amok
espec after that first winter chill......
I had the super white spot - and yep it is white spot. I lost lots of fish and thought what the..... you should not loose fish to white spot. Couldn't figure out what was going on. This was when I lived down in Nowra.
While there spoke to the local fish shop lady and she had it about the same time and it destroyed her display tank. I may have got it from her. She said that one of her wholesalers had it and the first treatment is their suggestion. Dropping the temperature is as it slows down the ferocity of the attack and gives the fish a chance to build up strength. Normal advise is to rise temp and speed up cycle to kill as larvae but apparently resistant enough to chems that this just helps the white spot win.
The second technique I read in TFH mag and like the idea off. Idea is that you prevent reinfection by moving fish into new cleaned and steralised enviroment. As cysts die off old age fish get better.
The only reason tanks are bare bottom is to make it easier to clean and steralise readdy for next move. Would need a lot of water but. Not sure we have that much water left now. ???
Steve
Oh I'm sure they had whitespot as well.
Iv'e seen hundreds of goldfish die from what looked like whitespot.
But I'm not convinced it was.
That said it is a widespread critter, and I'm sure some places have worse strains.
The fish trade breeds them all together and boom.
But the 'super strains' I have heard about are inconsistant.
To me that points at something else going on as well.
Without proper sacrifical fish autopsy and sending samples to a lab,
or at least a craft knife and microscope.
It's quite hard to see what is killing the fish.
Easy to see what seems to be,
but hard to know.
I guess what I am trying to say is,
fish have as many diseases, if not more than people.
As long as conditions favour the host, a healthy fish can normally shrug them off,
But when conditions favour the disease, then the host is in big trouble.
Healthy fish can survive a whitespot infection that is caught early and treated a few times.
If there are fish going down at high speed, even if the fish have white spot,
I would start thinking there may be a second gun man hiding out on a nol or somefink.
If cooling the tank down nails him as well then all the better.
Not saying the treatment wouldn't work.
Just thinking it's working for a different reason.
Aquarium industries recommend the lowering of temp as well.
Also i have never had an issue of white spot in my fish room only once in a hired tank, i raised the temp added rock salt with some medication and all over.
In Aquariums that i hire out i keep the temp @ 26 deg.
I have always put the temperature up & in a couple of days or less, the white spot has gone. Someone told me this when I was working in an aquarium shop. It worked every time. I found the advise very valuable.
Ichthyophthirius Multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish 1
Ruth Francis-Floyd and Peggy Reed2
Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is a ciliated protozoan which causes "Ich" or "white spot disease." This disease is a major problem to aquarists and commercial fish producers world wide. Ichthyophthirius is an important disease of tropical fish, goldfish, and food fish. The disease is highly contagious and spreads rapidly from one fish to another. It can be particularly severe when fish are crowded. While many protozoans reproduce by simple division, a single "Ich" organism can multiply into hundreds of new parasites. This organism is an obligate parasite which means that it cannot survive unless live fish are present. It is capable of causing massive mortality within a short time. An outbreak of "Ich" is an emergency situation which requires immediate treatment: if left untreated, this disease may result in 100% mortality.
The Parasite
"Ich" is the largest known parasitic protozoan found on fishes. Adult organisms are oval to round and measure 0.5 to 1.0 mm in size. The adult is uniformly ciliated and contains a horseshoe-shaped nucleus which can be seen in older individuals.
The breeding stage of the parasite encysts between the layers of the host skin. When mature, it leaves the fish and produces large numbers of free swimming young. These must find a host within 48 hours (at water temperatures of 75-79°F) or they will die. The life cycle of "Ich" is shown in Figure 1 .
Figure 1 .
Disease Signs
The classic sign of an "Ich" infection is the presence of small white spots on the skin or gills. These lesions look like small blisters on the skin or fins of the fish. Prior to the appearance of white spots, fish may show signs of irritation, flashing, weakness, loss of appetite, and decreased activity. If the parasite is only present on the gills, white spots will not be seen at all, but fish will die in large numbers. In these fish, gills will be pale and very swollen. White spots should not be used as the only means of diagnosis because other diseases may have a similar appearance. Gill and skin scrapings should be taken when the first signs of illness are observed. If the "Ich" organism is seen, fish should be medicated immediately because fish which are severely infected may not survive treatment.
Diagnosis of "Ich"
Diagnosis of "Ich" is easily confirmed by microscopic examination of skin and gills. Remove several white spots from an infected fish, then mount them on a microscope slide with a few drops of water and a cover glass. The mature parasite is large, dark in color (due to the thick cilia covering the entire cell), and has a horseshoe-shaped nucleus which is sometimes visible under 100 x magnification ( Figure 2 ). The adult parasite moves slowly in a tumbling manner and, with practice, is easily recognized. The immature forms (tomites) are smaller, translucent, and move quickly. The tomites ( Figure 3 ) closely resemble another protozoan parasite called Tetrahymina ( Figure 4 ). Tetrahymina usually does not require treatment, so it is important to recognize the difference between the two parasites. If only tomites are seen, prepare a second slide and examine it closely for the adult parasite to confirm the diagnosis. Observation of a single organism is sufficient to make treatment necessary.
Figure 2 .
Figure 3 .
Figure 4 .
Prevention of "Ich"
Prevention of "Ich" is preferable to treating fish after a disease outbreak is in progress. All incoming fish should be quarantined for at least three days when temperatures are 75 to 83°F. At cooler temperatures a 3-day quarantine will be inadequate for "Ich" because of its lengthened life cycle. For this reason, and to prevent introduction of other diseases which have incubation periods greater than 3 days, a longer quarantine is strongly recommended. Three weeks is generally considered a minimum period for adequate quarantine of new fish.
Treatment of "Ich"
Control of "Ich" outbreaks can be difficult because of the parasites' unusual life cycle and the effect of water temperature on its life cycle. Review the life cycle of L multifiliis presented in Figure 1 . Of the life stages shown, only the free-swimming tomites are susceptible to chemical treatment. This means that application of a single treatment will kill tomites which have emerged from cysts and have not yet burrowed into the skin of host fish. This single treatment will not affect organisms which emerge after the chemical has broken down or been flushed from the system. Repeated treatments, however, will continually kill the juvenile tomites, preventing continuation of the infection. The epizootic will be controlled as more adult parasites drop off the sick fish, encyst, and produce young which cannot survive because of the repeated application of chemicals. This process will be greatly accelerated if organic debris can be removed from the tank or vat following treatment. This will remove many cysts from the environment, decreasing the number of emergent tomites.
Water temperature has a tremendous influence on how fast the life cycle for "Ich" ( Figure 1 ) is completed. At warm temperatures (75-79°F), the life cycle is completed in about 48 hours, which means that chemical treatments should be applied every other day. At cooler temperatures the life cycle is prolonged and treatments should be spaced further apart. For example, at a water temperature of 60°F, treatments should be spaced 4 or 5 days apart. In warm water, a minimum of three treatments applied 2 to 3 days apart is required. In cooler water, a minimum of five treatments should be applied 3 to 5 days apart. Treatments should never be discontinued until all mortality from "Ich" has stopped. Fish should be closely watched during recovery; the weakened fish may be susceptible to a secondary bacterial infection. The choice of chemical used to treat "Ich" will be based upon water quality conditions, species of fish to be treated, and the type of system fish are housed in. In general, copper sulfate, formalin, and potassium permanganate are all effective against "Ich" when applied at the correct concentration in a repetitive manner as described above.
Special Considerations for Treatment of Food Fish
Most channel catfish, raised in the southeast, are reared in ponds. For these fish, the treatment of choice for "Ich" is copper sulfate. The chemical is effective and relatively inexpensive, an important consideration when large volumes of water are treated. The disadvantage of copper sulfate is that it is extremely toxic, particularly in water of low alkalinity. NEVER use copper sulfate without testing the total alkalinity of the water, carefully measuring the dimensions of the pond to be treated, and weighing the amount of chemical to be applied.
The concentration of copper sulfate to apply is often calculated by determining the total alkalinity of the water and dividing that number by 100. For example, if the total alkalinity of the pond is 100 mg/L, then 100/100 = 1 mg/L copper sulfate. Do not use copper sulfate if the total alkalinity is less than 50 mg/L. If you have never used copper sulfate, contact an IFAS extension aquaculture specialist for assistance. Use of copper sulfate may lead to severe oxygen depletions, therefore, emergency aeration should always be available. Use of copper sulfate during hot weather, or when algae blooms are dense, is strongly discouraged. Remember, if you do not know the alkalinity of your water and can not measure it then DO NOT USE COPPER SULFATE.
If you are unable to use copper in your pond because of low alkalinity, lack of aeration, or you are not comfortable using it, potassium permanganate can be used instead. The primary disadvantage of potassium permanganate is its high cost. However, it is equally effective and safer to use than copper sulfate. Potassium permanganate can be applied at a concentration of 2 mg/L which will result in a purple-pink color of the water. If the water turns yellow or brown in less than 8 to 10 hours, then the treatment should be repeated. Usually, a maximum of three applications (2 mg/L each) is recommended during any one treatment (maximum concentration of 6 mg/L).
If fish are maintained indoors in a tank system, formalin can be used to treat "Ich". Formalin is not the ideal treatment for ponds, but works nicely in tanks with vigorous aeration. Formalin should not be run through a biofilter, however, as it will kill the bacteria in the filter and ammonia levels may increase to lethal levels. A short-term bath of 250 mg/L for 30 to 60 minutes can be followed by a water change. Cleaning the tank will also decrease the number of parasites. When applying a concentrated treatment such as formalin, NEVER leave the fish in the treated water longer than recommended, and NEVER leave them unattended. Sick fish may be unable to tolerate a full treatment. If they appear stressed or try to jump out of the tank, flush the chemical from the system immediately. A long term bath of formalin can be used in a tank system at a concentration of 15 mg/L and does not need to be flushed out.
Salt can also be used to control "Ich" infections in small volumes of water. This is not practical in ponds because even a light salt solution of 0.01% (100 mg/L), would require large quantities of salt (272 lbs/acre-foot). In small volumes (i.e. tanks or vats), however, salt can be useful. Fish can be dipped in a 3% (30,000 mg/L) solution for thirty seconds to several minutes, or they can be treated in a prolonged bath at a lower concentration (0.05% = 500 mg/L). Salt at low concentrations (0.01 to 0.05% solution) is an excellent means of controlling "Ich" in recirculating systems without harming the biofilter. An ultraviolet filter is recommended as an aid in preventing the spread of the parasite in a recirculating system.
Special Considerations for Treatment of Ornamental Fish
Fish which are not intended for human consumption can also be treated with the chemicals described above for food fish. Copper sulfate or potassium permanganate work well in pools, whereas formalin or salt may be easier to use in smaller volumes of water.
Malachite green is another chemical which can be used to treat ornamental fish that are housed indoors. This chemical should NEVER be used to treat food fish. Not only is this illegal and unethical, but it is totally unnecessary. The chemicals listed above (copper sulfate, potassium permanganate, formalin, and salt) are all excellent treatments for "Ich". Malachite green is mentioned for the sake of completion, but is not recommended by the authors. The chemical is hazardous to handle- it is known to cause cancer, mutations, and is harmful to fetuses. Gloves and a protective mask should always be worn when handling the concentrated powder. Pregnant personnel should NEVER handle this chemical. Despite its toxicity, it is commonly used to control parasitic protozoans on ornamental fish and is quite effective when used at concentrations of 0.05 to 0.10 mg/L as an indefinite bath. This chemical is extremely harsh on fish, particularly on gill tissue, so be careful not to overdose the fish. Malachite green can also be combined with formalin (0.2 mg/L malachite green mixed with 25 mg/L formalin) to treat external protozoan diseases. The two chemicals work well together and are quite effective. Malachite green can be very toxic to scaleless fish and should be avoided on these species.
Special Considerations for Treatment of Pet Fish
Pet fish can be treated with any of the chemicals discussed above to correct "Ich" infections. A number of commercial preparations are available from pet stores which contain one or several of these agents. Temperature manipulation is also an effective way to control "Ich" in home aquariums. This technique is often not practical for commercial fish farms, but is advantageous for the hobbyist because expensive products do not have to be purchased and it is safer for some of the delicate species which are popular in community tanks. Water temperature can be gradually raised to 90°F, maintained there for 24 hours, and then gradually dropped to 70°F for 48 hours. The infective juveniles (tomites) will be killed while the water temperature is at 90°. When the temperature is dropped the adult organisms will fall off the fish and begin to reproduce. As the young begin to emerge 48 hours later, the temperature is again raised to 90°F, causing them to die. Repeating this process continuously (24 hours at 90° F followed by 48 hours at 70° F) for two weeks should control the disease. Cleaning the tank every second day will help remove cysts before they rupture and therefore help to prevent completion of the life cycle. If you decide to use temperature to control "Ich" in your home aquarium be sure that the type of fish in your tank can tolerate the temperature extremes involved.
Summary
"Ich" is a protozoan parasite with the scientific name of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis . It is easily introduced into a fish pond, tank, or home aquarium by new fish or equipment which has been moved from one fish-holding unit to another. Quarantine is an effective way of preventing this disease. Once the organism gets into a large fish culture facility, it is difficult to control due to its fast reproductive cycle and its unique life stages. If not controlled, 100% mortality of fish can be expected. With careful treatment, the disease can be controlled, but the cost will be high, both in terms of lost fish, labor, and the cost of chemicals.
In contrast to most parasitic diseases, where the decision to treat (or not to treat) is based on the degree of infestation and other factors, fish infected with "Ich" (even if only one parasite is seen) should always be treated immediately. This organism can only survive if live fish are present for completion of its life cycle. It can cause massive mortality of fish within a short time. In severe cases, control may be impossible. A single treatment is not sufficient for this disease, as the encysted stage is resistant to chemicals. Repeating the selected treatment will disrupt the life cycle and control the outbreak. Daily cleaning of the tank is also beneficial, as the encysted forms are physically removed from the environment. Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is a common parasite which can cause catastrophic loss in aquaculture facilities. Careful attention to management practices, such as quarantine and multiple treatments when outbreaks occur, will minimize economic loss from this disease.
Footnotes
1. This document is CIR920, one of a series of the Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences Department, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida. Original publication date March, 1991. Reviewed July, 2002. Visit the EDIS Web Site at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu.Please visit the FAIRS Web site at http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu.
2. Ruth Francis-Floyd, IFAS ExtensionVeterinarian, Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, and Peggy Reed, Biological Scientist, Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences and Department of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences; Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville, 32611.
The Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (IFAS) is an Equal Opportunity Institution authorized to provide research, educational information and other services only to individuals and institutions that function with non-discrimination with respect to race, creed, color, religion, age, disability, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, political opinions or affiliations. For more information on obtaining other extension publications, contact your county Cooperative Extension service.
U.S. Department of Agriculture, Cooperative Extension Service, University of Florida, IFAS, Florida A. & M. University Cooperative Extension Program, and Boards of County Commissioners Cooperating. Larry Arrington, Dean.
Copyright Information
This document is copyrighted by the University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (UF/IFAS) for the people of the State of Florida. UF/IFAS retains all rights under all conventions, but permits free reproduction by all agents and offices of the Cooperative Extension Service and the people of the State of Florida. Permission is granted to others to use these materials in part or in full for educational purposes, provided that full credit is given to the UF/IFAS, citing the publication, its source, and date of publication.
Will add as an article shortly with pics...
HTH
Will have a look later and drag up some stuff on the 'super strain'
and ya have chatted with bay and ai about w/s before.
Both have always been super helpful.
but super strain..... hmmm.... strange one.
I have found that the best white spot remedys are the ones that contain formaldahyde as well as all the regular ingredients. I know that it is far harder for some fish to get over the disease than others, but I personally have never had any problems so long as I have caught it early enough.
Yes there are many types of whitespot out there and even other diseases that look like whitespot but aren't. We have a wide selection of diseases that come through work and I agree totally with Dead Fish Floating as whitespot is often a secondary disease which is brought about because the fish is already stressed and suffering from something else. Unfortuanately it is often not easy to tell what disease a fish has, even for someone who does it for a living, let alone a hobbyist who gets some kind of outbreak once in a blue moon.
ok so going to go for a read thru this when I get a chance
http://iubio.bio.indiana.edu/biomail/listinfo/parasite (http://iubio.bio.indiana.edu/biomail/listinfo/parasite)
looks like the right sorta place...... if a little word heavy.
QuoteMost strains of Ich will respond to the treatments described here. However, researchers have recorded rare instances where trophonts were able to encyst and reproduce without leaving the body of the host fish, essentially skipping the second life stage described above. Obviously this is a menacing thought, but one to be considered should all attempts to eradicate the parasite fail. In such an event, it would be impossible to destroy all the organisms and the frustrated hobbyist would fight an endless battle with repeated outbreaks of the disease. Euthanasia would be the only humane option. Let me stress, however, that I read about this in a research paper and have never heard of this actually occurring to a fellow aquarist. Let's hope it never does.
the above was found here http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php) and is a scary one altho I'd like to see the actual data behind it.
This link http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/disease_7.html (http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/disease_7.html) and the next page after it, have a nice list of fish drugs. Handy as many names are similar.
In my mind whitespot kills quickly when it gets stuck into the gills or a secondary bacterial infection moves into wounds it has made. I don't always follow directions on fish meds and I usually treat for around 10 days. The standard mal geen/formalin blend can knock filter bacteria around over 10 daze. Kinda have to be careful in blackwater tanks with it too. Acriflavine is usually my secret weapon to throw at it if all else fails. Apparently people stopped using when it became ineffective, but I have had good results. Oh yea and it kills filters easy so if your making your own up.... go easy.