tannins and pH....pls help

[ashhhh]

Hi all,<
>Enlighten me........ is it the tannin that the timber releases into the water that lowers the pH level of water??or is it something that ''just happens'' and the tannin is just a pain in the arse factor for clear water lovers like me?<
><
>If the tannin IS removed from the water with carbon or ''zero colour'' does it defeat the purpose of using the timber to lower the the pH?<
><
>I only ask cause I have a two ft tank with a bnose
eeding pair and was wondering what is best for them.........even if it means leaving the tannin in the water<
><
>Cheers Ash   Edited by: ashhhh at: 27/6/05 21:34<
>

[mickvick]

Can''t tell you much about zero colour, but what is commonly referred to as ''tannins'', is ''tannic acid''. <
><
>It lowers the pH as it is just another (weak) form of acid.<
><
>More info....<
><
>www.sydneycichlid.com/old...odfaq.html<
><
>Michael

[ashhhh]

so if I use carbon to remove the tannin am I removing the effect on the pH of the water? or am I only removing the colour and the pH effect still remains?, thats what I need to know <
>Cheers Ash  

Ash, cant really help you there mate but I have recently put a nice new piece in my
istlenose tank which has leeched quiet alot, so I have put carbon in the filter today and will continue to monitor the PH to find out. Also curious, I picked up a really nice piece at the last auction and ever since it has been in My discus tank I have had a a problem with a build up of bubbles almost foam on the surface of the tank. The piece was cured and everything and the fish are still 100% healthy just curious if you or anyone else has experienced this and what is the cause<
>Cheers

[ashhhh]

Yeah I think I will do the same with testing and monitoring but ive never had a drama with bubbles.Some one maybe scrubbed it with dishwashing liquid lol <
>sorry .........but seriously , no never had bubbles<
><
><
>Cheers Ash  

[nemo1981]

i got a nice piece 1 foot long hollow log off of daniel (qt fish) at the auction.<
>i soaked it for just over a week, and still the tannins are leaching out into my bn tank.<
>it''s not a display so i don''t really mind, just keep up the water changes and eventually it''ll die down.<
>but then, i''ve got a piece in another tank i''ve had for about 4 years and teh water still stains lightly. Steven & Amy<
>Ipswich<
>Email: nemo19_81@hotmail.com<
>Our Photos<
>

I''ve had some pieces of wood soaking in a bathtub to let the tannin release for 12 months and still more came out when I placed them in a display tank.<
><
><
>Cheers Dave "I believe that sex is a beautiful thing between two people. Between five, it''s fantastic."

I would be suprised if filtering out the tannins raised the pH. I think you should be ok. <
><
>Anyway... if you want clear water, i dont think driftwood is the way to lower your pH. It makes the water look dirty, changes pH very slowly, and makes water changes with a stable pH very difficult. <
><
>For an alternative, read my pH down post.  

natural methods of lowering pH are always going to be better than buffers<
><
>if you are concerned about the tannins in the water use peat in you filter, i find it gives very clear results<
><
>and even better if you use them in a holding drum to stabilize the water you will have fantastic results<
><
>as soon as i put peat in both my trickle and storage drum i had my discus spawn every water change for a month LOL<
><
>buffers are to fine an art, and prone to problems IMO  

What is so natural about Peat? <
><
>Do you see giant stockings of peat growing in any rivers?<
><
>If by natural, you mean unprocessed or not chemical by nature, then that means nothing.<
><
>As far as im concerned, using a simple acid (HCl) is much more natural than using peat. Because i would bet that most water isnt full of humic acids and tannins from peat. (Unless its the blackwater amazon environment)<
><
><
><
>

quote "Because i would bet that most water isnt full of humic acids and tannins from peat."<
><
>most water does contain organic matter, most organic matter contains humic acids in varying amonts, i never stated nor did i imply that all water "was full of humic acid from peat". That would be dumb. <
><
>quote "What is so natural about Peat? "<
><
>it is an natural resouce made by nature from natural living products, was that a retorical question?<
><
>quote "As far as im concerned, using a simple acid (HCl) is much more natural than using peat"<
><
>it may be easier for you, but there is no possible way that you can say that by adding a man made chemical to your artifical underwater man made envirmoent you are doing anything natural, you are simply further manipulatng an already manipulated enviroment<
><
>are you just trying to get a rise out of me?<
> Edited by: kalebjarrod at: 29/6/05 18:19<
>

[Dyce]

can you "farm" tannins, like boil down tannin soaked water into a form? <
><
>Or use something like tea bags? Because all tea is pretty much is tannins...<
><
>Oh god I think I''m becoming a gorilla.... that is swarve  <
><
>Swarve would set these threads straight with his no-sleep 4AM fish studying manicness. fish fish fish fish turkey fish fish gobble

you can do a similar thing with pest in a stocking in your canister, trickle, or storage drum<
><
>just like tea  <
><
>

[here fishie fishie]

<
>Acid is good to lower the ph, to maintain stability of the ph at around 6-6.5 use peat moss.<
><
>Ash, the Gold Coast water has been pretty soft at the moment too, you shouldn''t really have to play around to much, if at all. <
>Generally from what Discus keepers on the G.Coast have told me, they do nothing to the water here as they don''t have to.<
><
>Frenchy  "A house full of people is a house full of different points of view"<
>

[ashhhh]

yeah frenchy, my tap water comes out at about 7.2-7.4 pH which is good for my american display tank they all happy.<
>But got a 2footer with bnose pair that I just got and they are more used to a lower ph they were kept in, so just trying toget it down a bit to make them feel more at home, got some pH down of steve yesterday, bit more convenient than buring myself again with acid - see what happens  <
><
>Cheers Ash