WHITE CRANE!!!!!!!

[Benji]

white crane may have the same ingredients as the others but it also has hormones, the other's don't. 

kinda like steroids, eg. a woman can eat the same protein rich foods as a man and pump just as much iron but will never get muscles bigger than a man without steroids.

[gasnitro]

Well said Benji.

[christo]

after digesting all this info, one question......

will feeding my fish food with astaxanthin make my fish infertile or have
any other bad side effects???


cheers
christo

[gasnitro]

Like anything if it used in correct dosages all ok. { 20-100ppm} I find for fry it is helping  growth rate. I also feed my fish other foods as well.
And my final thought on this if the fish are so bad and you have to Nuke them then I would suggest go and buy some quality fish that don't require to be Nuked.

[christo]

i wasnt buying the food cause it had colouring agent, i was buying it cause it was cheap and i was broke :D

[Dead Fish Floating]

OK white crane doesn't have hormones in it.
I don't have concrete evidence for that,
it's more an educated musing.
Why would they add testosterone?
Just sounds silly to me.
Show me the link hey, otherwise I think it would be a bit more expensive.


Astax (or castax) IS the magical ingredient in white crane,
just as it's the magic ingredient in naturose
or discus magic
or tetra bits
or any of a hundred other foods.

As to nuking a female cichlid.
Thats easy mate, just feed them food with a
nice high level of astax or castax for a month or 2
and BOOM (headshot  ;) ya got a coloured chicky.

As to it making them infertile.
I'm not sold on it.
Certainly slows down breeding
and confuses the hell outta male fish when their chicks
look like them.
But it depends on the fish.

I have heards discus breeders say they noticed no drop off in breeding.
and they were feeding heavy.
In one tank of mbuna I astax bombed
the fulleborne chicks never bred again
and they never missed a mouthful a mouth before that.
but the dam auratus bred like flies
despite the dirty blrowny/black females.

PSB seems to also work as a blanket term
for 'blue green' algae that isn't spirulina.
So I imagine it would contain lots of pigments.
Algae and bacteria are where these magical colours come from after all.


Spirulina itself can be used to colour females,
well something I have noticed anyway
female flameback (nyerie) fed on just spirulina flake
tend to develope golder bellys in my tanks.
Only a subtle change but once pointed out easy to see.

I am surprised you have found no evidence of astax colouring up female dimorphic cichlids.
Will have a quick look and get back to ya.
I suspect the problem lies with people knowing what is making their fish brighter
plenty of hits for brand names, and a lot less for ingriedients.
;D

[christo]

so what is the "food of foods" to feed fish you want to breed???

cheers
christo

[uknows]

ive heard crane does have hormones in it
unlike astax that takes a few weeks to work
crane seems to work in about a week even with
young fish only 6 to 8 cm

[Benji]

and white crane gives the females nice long pointy fins like males as well, take them off it, the colour fades and fins go back to normal.  do the others do that? 

so why is it white crane works so well?  when you want to colour your fish and don't care about breeding, everyone says "white crane" why aren't the other brands mentioned as often?

[Dead Fish Floating]

roids are used on tilapia, thats pretty much the only fish I can think of that are given testost anyway. Idea is to stop the breeding.
I know theres regulations about steroid food.
However I have always been able to colour up fry with astax or artificial versions of it.
Just load the food up enough.
Unless somehow my bulk astax was contaminated with whatever hormone is alleged to be in the whitecrane..... no I didn't have naturose, and yea the fins growing longer is a worry.
tricky to find something conclusive written in stone......
Can't I just feed yams as well to get the estrogen flowing in da water?
heh

[gasnitro]

yeh i know  :-X :D
I just received a reply from white crane Aqua-Tech in Thailand  and this is the reply
Quote
PSB comes from Photo Synthetic Bacteria. The dry powder from this bacteria contains high amount of amino acid and is used as food to keep fish in healthy condition.
do a search on Ennzymes,Lactic Bacteria, these are some other ingredients of white crane
What's the arti Astax called and how did you make it? 
And for Astax to be contaminated with a hormone would be very unlikely - impossible if you brought it direct from the manufacture .
why would you not follow the recomendation on the products that you use. you like telling people that you would do anything to your fish  :o

[mic]

ha - aint this topic gonna run for years-
i think as i have been reading this that everyone has different point of views and that it will never be finalised-
maybe it is better to stay clear of white crane and i know myself that using the sera brand of products that my fish are healthy
as for white crane the advantages dont stack up to the disadvantages,
i have never used white crane- though i have heard of it,
and i think that with the variety of foods available that why would any breeder bother with white crane
as gas nitro states theres plenty other products around and that are a lot safer
though i still dont think that white crane has hormones added as this would be against australia quarintine laws import laws, i know that years ago it may have but at present i dont think it would- but thats just a guess
white crane is a topic that will never be finished as its contraversal and its like talking politics- bad news to discuss anytime as everyone has different point of views
anyway it makes good reading and wouldnt it be great to sit around a campfire with a bottle of bundy and discuss this with a heap of breeders and reps- ha wouldnt that be a site to see!!!
we shouldnt be pointing fingers or discussing whos using white crane- nor should we be judgemental
everyone does something that another breeder dosnt agree with -what works for you is your choice
white crane -friend or foe!!
well everyone to there own but used in moderation like once a fortnight i cant see the harm- yet i am not about to try
what i cant understand is there is so many white crane varieties
growth pellets
gold color
red color
multi color
blue color
and even one to enhance spawning!!!
most are aimed at the discus market
wouldnt it be nice to see what is actually the difference in each one of the varieties they make and the ingredients
maybe the best idea is to start a topic which gives the ingredients and percentages of different foods that are on the market and this way we can all contribute and we can all look and see the the variety and contents of all the foods around
this way all who visit the forum can look and decide what food best suits them
just a thought -as the varities are many-sera -wardley , etc etc
this would make some quality reading that we can all particapate and gain knowlegde from at the same time
what u all reckon!!!!!!

[braddo]

It is known that a lot of fish coming from asia have been spiked with male hormones to control breeding in other countries. White crane is a food made in asia that was supposed to be for this purpose (like I said supposed to be or another words rumored to be) although unable to be proven. Personally in my opinion I would rather stay away from it to be safe rather than sorry.

[Dead Fish Floating]

So will you stay away from all foods containing astax?
No matter the version astax is da magical ingredient and if it's on the ingredients it's a 'colour' food.
As to not following directions.....
Thats not really what nuking or juicing is about.
It's more about loading female/juvies cichlids with more astax than they can leach out.
Hormones are handy for breeding things and astax is good at giving it colour.
Take humans for example, feed them astax and they go tanned.
But thats just lazy, go to the beach and earn it ya bum!
For my fish..... brineshrimp cubes and spirulina flakes for treats, and a blended fish(bones and all) and vege gelatin food staple works well.....  altho to just maintain life and breed protien pellets seem to hold up.
If I need magical colour in 3cm african fry.....  time to mix a bit of astax into the food.
the long fins is a weird one hey
strange.....
see if it makes it's first year mic, while to go yet.
;)

[Dead Fish Floating]

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Homrich_Color_Enhancing_Foods.html

A food test link, no white crane but it is on Africans, and theres a bit of colour change in females. No ingredients list but would have to be a similar one.


http://www.ta-aquaculture.co.uk/Ingredient_glossary.htm

The next link gives a nice list of ingriedients used in fish food. Worth a read but I'll just quote the astax bit

Mainly extracted from red algae but can be made artificially. Gives good colour to fish. A carotenoid found commonly in nature but particularly in marine environments. First discovered in 1938 in the Lobster sp. Homarus astacus. Fish cannot synthesize Astaxanthin they have to find it in food. Our Astax crumb feed is rich in this item.
Astaxanthin is very strong - 10 times stronger than Beta Carotene & 100 times stronger than Vitamin E (alpha tocopherol). The anti-oxidant properties exceed also zeaxanthin, canthaxanthin & vitamin C.
Some authors have proposed this as a 'Super vitamin E'.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blank/blfishfood.htm
a comparison of which foods contain colour enhancers

http://www.flowerhornusa.com/index.php?showtopic=1705

offered these pearls of wisdom

I have a product called nuta Rose. Its a powder that is blood red. It colors fish up very nicely. I wander if it is actually astaxanthin? I hardly ever use it. It seems to stay in the fish's system about a couple of weeksafter i stop feeding it to them.

Artificial color enhancer ussually is call EEC....and I dont use this material.

http://www.twst.com/pdf/ZAP606.pdf

A little link on the naturose astax.

:-\
theres just not much out there on fins getting longer....
more likely it's just hiding really well.